Tragic Kayak Accident......

[SkippinJimmy]

I wear one around my house because we have been known to get the occasional flash flood.  No such thing as too safe..

[J Francho]

There is being reckless and then there are cases where your number is up. A woman, driving her car nearby with her seat belt on, was killed by a tree that fell as she was coming down the road. No PFD or helmet would have saved her. These guys seem to fall in the former category of tragedy. Both are sad, but one was maybe avoidable. 

[Swamp Girl]

44 minutes ago, GaryH said:

I can’t tell people what to do BUT when on my boat and the big motor is running you’ll wear a PFD or you won’t be on the boat.

 

Same rule in my canoe. And twice, I was resisted, once by a teenage boy and once by my dad, but I held firm and they relented. 

 

19 hours ago, MediumMouthBass said:

Alot of people here would love North Korea by what ive read so far.

 

None of us love North Korea. 

[Crow Horse]

52 minutes ago, SkippinJimmy said:

I wear one around my house because we have been known to get the occasional flash flood.  No such thing as too safe..

No helmet?

Borrowed from A-Jay, this sums it up so very well.... (thank you)

 

"Failing to prepare is preparing to fail."

[SkippinJimmy]

12 minutes ago, Crow Horse said:

No helmet?

Borrowed from A-Jay, this sums it up so very well.... (thank you)

 

"Failing to prepare is preparing to fail."

Life is full of choices.  I will always follow the laws and in Texas, when vehicles are underway, jackets are required for children under 13 and must be easily accessible for all other boaters.  I always use a jacket when the big motor is on but I usually don’t wear one when I am on the front deck.  If on a kayak, I always wear one if the water is cold, if the traffic is heavy, or if I am fishing in heavy vegetation.  Otherwise, I typically have my jacket within arms reach.  If that makes me irresponsible, so be it.
 

FWIW, I have a left rear tire that is below the recommended tread depth right now as well, so I obviously like to live dangerously.

[J Francho]

41 minutes ago, Swamp Girl said:

None of us love North Korea. 

Some love to use it in hyperboles. 

[Motoboss]

Two antidote I try to consider 

#1 by Hirotake Arai of Arai motorcycle helmets; “when on a motorcycle, dress for the accident not the ride”

#2 by a DNR friend; “we never pull a drown victim out of the water wearing a PFD”

 

Once again, education 

[gim]

1 hour ago, SkippinJimmy said:

 I always use a jacket when the big motor is on but I usually don’t wear one when I am on the front deck.

 

This is how I roll too.

 

I don't fish out of yak or canoe.  But if I did, I'd be wearing one all the time.  A boat is obviously a much larger, more stable platform than a canoe or a kayak.

[Rockhopper]

Regarding kayaks only:

 

The only time I take a pfd on the yak is when I am on the big river.  Heavy winds coupled with huge wakes from the ships and throw in the current...you would be stupid not to have one on.  Everywhere else I fish in the yak is small, shallow waters with no boats, and the pfd stays at home.  I am typically in my board shorts and a t shirt with no shoes on.  Hell, I even purposely jump in sometimes to cool off.  But with it being required...I will keep my mouth shut as I disagree with A LOT of what has been said and there is no reason to start an argument.  BUT, if you feel the need to have one, you should take one.  No one should argue your own safety.  Do what you feel you need to be safe and have fun and make it home at the end of the day to your family.

[gim]

3 minutes ago, Rockhopper said:

Everywhere else I fish in the yak is small, shallow waters with no boats, and the pfd stays at home. 

 

Its not required?

[SkippinJimmy]

36 minutes ago, gim said:

 

This is how I roll too.

 

I don't fish out of yak or canoe.  But if I did, I'd be wearing one all the time.  A boat is obviously a much larger, more stable platform than a canoe or a kayak.

As is your choice and I respect that.  If I lived in MN, that might be my choice as well.
 

I have fished and swam in many, many lakes and ponds over my lifetime.  We just got back from Puerto Rico where we were doing backflips off a waterfall on a rope.  My choice on wearing a PDF is based on the law first and circumstances second, and not a blanket decision.  But that’s just me and no judgement to those who choose differently.

[Rockhopper]

16 minutes ago, gim said:

 

Its not required?

I honestly have no idea and have never cared to check.

 

When I am personally in the most danger of drowning is when I am surfing, not kayak fishing.  I surf a dozen times a year or so on various beaches.  Don't think I have ever seen a person surfing with a pfd on.  There is a lot more danger involved with that than kayaking in shallow, slack waters.  You would think of anything, that would be required.  But that conversation never really comes up.

[VolFan]

This whole thread has probably run its course…

 

It’s definitely winter.

[Crow Horse]

I think some folks are assuming that we will always be in control all situations and the reality is that's not always the case. For instance, regardless of the vessel, a medical emergency, be it a momentary blackout, a cardiac event, low blood sugar, or similar survivalable events take control of the situation away from us. Lose consciousness and take a swim with a PFD on tilts everything in your favor. It's not 100% and won't ever be but I'll wager that the outcome could be much more favorable.

[Swamp Girl]

15 minutes ago, VolFan said:

This whole thread has probably run its course…

 

It’s definitely winter.

 

 

P. S. - I'm going to wear a PFD for everyone who doesn't. I'll be so buoyant that I won't even need a canoe. 

[Cuivre]

11 minutes ago, Crow Horse said:

I think some folks are assuming that we will always be in control all situations and the reality is that's not always the case. For instance, regardless of the vessel, a medical emergency, be it a momentary blackout, a cardiac event, low blood sugar, or similar survivalable events take control of the situation away from us. Lose consciousness and take a swim with a PFD on tilts everything in your favor. It's not 100% and won't ever be but I'll wager that the outcome could be much more favorable.

I also think that many people don't realize what a fully rigged tournament kayak looks like.  I routinely have 9 rods/reels in holders behind me/staged beside me, with exposed treble hooks.  The rods behind me have coiled trimmer cord tethers on them.  I also have a throttle beside my seat for my Torqeedo, an Anchor Wizard, depthfinder, DonkeyLeash and anchor trolley.  Even my Ketch board has a tether on it.  If I were to ever flip my kayak (knock on wood, it hasn't happened), I can be very sure it would be nothing like jumping off an uncluttered dock in the summertime in swim trunks-there are far more risks of entanglement involved with what surrounds serious kayak fishermen with a rigged kayak. You could be snagged by hooks, clothes snagged on a gear fitting, etc.  (happened to me when getting out of my yak in shallow water).  Your "I'm an excellent swimmer" status goes out the window very quickly when you instantly become unable to move freely due to these hazards.

[SkippinJimmy]

33 minutes ago, VolFan said:

This whole thread has probably run its course…

 

It’s definitely winter.

Agree…people have heels dug in and opinions are not going to change.

[SkippinJimmy]

Full disclosure…the real reason I don’t wear a PDF all the time is because a PDF shaped suntan would ruin my dancing career.

[Crow Horse]

2 minutes ago, SkippinJimmy said:

Full disclosure…the real reason I don’t wear a PDF all the time is because a PDF shaped suntan would ruin my dancing career.

That's #10.

[gim]

43 minutes ago, SkippinJimmy said:

Agree…people have heels dug in and opinions are not going to change.

 

Precisely why I don't even attempt to change it anymore either.

 

[Jigfishn10]

I’m not gonna get all righteous and tell peeps to wear a life jacket but I do make them bring one with them bc I have to have them onboard for every person.

I wear them bc I’m in the Atlantic more than a lake and know first hand what the ocean is capable of doing. If you go over in my boat without a life jacket and something happens then that’s on you. I know it’s cold but I can only control me.  

 

[MediumMouthBass]

4 hours ago, Crow Horse said:

I think some folks are assuming that we will always be in control all situations and the reality is that's not always the case. For instance, regardless of the vessel, a medical emergency, be it a momentary blackout, a cardiac event, low blood sugar, or similar survivalable events take control of the situation away from us. Lose consciousness and take a swim with a PFD on tilts everything in your favor. It's not 100% and won't ever be but I'll wager that the outcome could be much more favorable.

I really like what you wrote here, compared to everyone else saying you must wear one or else the world will end, and giving no facts or information. Just a opinion. Instead you put together a very informative, extremely well said part about why you should. And what can happen that most wouldnt expect or even think of. I experienced exactly what you are talking about just in a different sport/hobby.

I spent almost every hour at a skatepark throughout my younger years, i was very good and knew the place i was at like the back of my hand. Went up the one ramp just to go over it and woke up a few minutes later missing a few pieces of teeth. I wasnt even going to jump it, just go over it. I got to the top, passed out and fell forward down the landing. 

I hadnt eaten or drank for most of the morning and blacked out, more than likely from low blood sugar or something. 2 months after drinking soup from a straw the swelling went down and the dental work started....

If something like this happened on a kayak, even with a life jacket it can still go either way. I really got to start looking into those PFD's that are designed to float so your face is upright and out of water. Because something like this can happen so easily, now i drink water like a fish and make sure my blood sugar doesnt get low, and i dont get hungry. Especially when fishing.

4 hours ago, Cuivre said:

Your "I'm an excellent swimmer" status goes out the window very quickly when you instantly become unable to move freely due to these hazards.

Anyone would be unable to move freely if they went in the water now with or without a life jacket, within a short amount of time the muscles wouldnt be able to move, then its hypothermia until the end. This time of year with no one on the lakes you could be waiting minutes (unlikely) or hours/days for rescue to come. By then its way too late. I would never imagine a scenario where im kayaking in the winter but i guess the story the OP shared just happened and ive heard about other people going out in these conditions with their boats and kayaks.... The excellent swimmers every one here hates would be the ones who survive in these conditions. Getting to shore and calling for help and getting warm is the only chance (assuming you cant get to the boat/kayak), but you have to move fast. I do agree that if the excellent swimmer had a PFD it would make the chances higher, since the muscles would fatigue less.

 

Best thing to do is just avoid being on the water until spring (although the water in spring is still cold) but atleast there will be alot of people around to help if anything happens.

12 hours ago, Susky River Rat said:

This is a highly uneducated statement. This event was such a minority of incidents it’s not worth bringing up. I raced motocross for well over a decade multiple  times a week. I ran around with people in the pro ranks. The death rate would be insane without helmets.  If you follow proper protocol with replacing helmets after you take a hit even if it’s two days old you replace it. Also the whole thoughts of how helmets protect has changed. That’s why good helmets are $400 plus. They learned a helmet needs to absorb impact to limit the impact of the brain against the inside of the skull basically. That impact inside the skull is what causes the concussions and neurological issues. This would be exactly like saying you can still drown with a life jacket don’t wear it.

I never said helmets wouldnt protect. Nor did i say not to wear them. I said they arent a guarantee.

This was about a decade ago before technology improved like you stated, also wasnt a real track.

It was a track made locally in the woods, about 20 acres. Right next to the river, trees everywhere.

I also stated it was a very small chance.

And im not talking about a crash into dirt, im talking about he was going full speed to clear a table and his head smashed right into the tree 30' off the ground. With or without a helmet even with todays tech the result wouldve been the same.

 

And thanks for the compliment about being highly uneducated, care to pay for my college so i can get smarter? I would appreciate it.

[A-Jay]

I am not inclined to comment on the situation in the OP.

The victims are they only ones who know what happened. 

I will say that there have been literally hundreds of these type threads on this forum over the 16 plus years I've been a member.

Boating Safety has been around far longer yet the loss of life on the water

continues year after year.

Seeing this stuff first hand, up close and personal never got any easier for me.

Just gut wrenching.

The one constant over my almost 3 decades of involvement with this,

is that bad stuff happens to good people all the time.

On both commercial and recreational vessels. 

And that includes the folks charged with trying to 'help'.

IMO, there are plenty of rules & regulations including sufficient public awareness

that being an advocate or not for one's own survival, is a personal choice.

However, as a 'Vessel Operator' there are some legal and liability matters to consider.

Passengers safely on 'your' rig is your responsibility.

Not knowing the regulations does not give one a pass. 

 

Rule 2 - Responsibility 
(a) Nothing in these Rules shall exonerate any vessel, or the owner, master, or crew thereof, from the consequences of any neglect to comply with these Rules or of the neglect of any precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case.

 

This is where ALL the rules and Regulations come from

and it's available just about everywhere books are sold.

There's plenty of On line versions as well.

https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/navigation-rules-amalgamated

Believe it or not, they even apply out on Lake Menderchuck.

Stay Safe

A-Jay

 

[Susky River Rat]

@MediumMouthBass I never said you were uneducated. I said that the statement was. You said helmets protect but, not really.  That’s a pretty good word salad.
 

My friends son lost his life due to his brain swelling from an accident racing. helmet safety with motocross has been a huge priority for me since than. I didn’t show up to a track and hear about it. I watched my friend and his wife suffer through the loss of their child.  That isn’t a college education you can buy.  

[SkippinJimmy]

2 hours ago, SkippinJimmy said:

Full disclosure…the real reason I don’t wear a PDF all the time is because a PDF shaped suntan would ruin my dancing career.

I also don’t wear PFD’s all the time either 😜.