Take a look at Lake fork if you’re worried about the future. I went there 20 yrs ago and people were standing on step ladders in the front of their boat yanking bass off a bed lightning fast and “hauling it across the lake in a livewell.” Watching a tourney there today and they catch like a dozen 6+ lb bass in the first hour. And they were doing the same thing 20 years before I ever went. You can worry all you want, but it’s unfounded concern 

 

if I’ve said it once I’ve said it a million times, it’s about habitat. Has nothing to do with what people rod/reel fishing are doing 

@JHoss the not casting to beds may only be on the Susquehanna reading this. Which is where I fish. If you know anything about the history of the susky there was a time there was almost no fish in it.   That is really blurry but here is the link. 

3 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

 

 

Take a look at Lake fork if you’re worried about the future. I went there 20 yrs ago and people were standing on step ladders in the front of their boat yanking bass off a bed lightning fast and “hauling it across the lake in a livewell.” Watching a tourney there today and they catch like a dozen 6+ lb bass in the first hour. And they were doing the same thing 20 years before I ever went. You can worry all you want, but it’s unfounded concern 

 

if I’ve said it once I’ve said it a million times, it’s about habitat. Has nothing to do with what people rod/reel fishing are doing 

The Sharelunker program is another great example. They literally take every fish over 13 and move it to an entirely different lake. But like you said, they keep churning out monsters from the lakes the fish are taken from. 

3 minutes ago, Susky River Rat said:

@JHoss the not casting to beds may only be on the Susquehanna reading this. Which is where I fish. If you know anything about the history of the susky there was a time there was almost no fish in it.  

I did not know that. Do you expect that regulation to stick considering the rebound that system has had? I've never been up there, but it's definitely on the list. I was supposed to fish a kayak tournament up there a few years ago, but it got moved to the Pocomoke in favor of better cell reception. I suspect it's like the Upper James on steroids? I fish that a couple times a year and have a blast, but fish over 16" are a rarity. And now we're seeing more and more spots where they've never been so I'm sure the smallies are in trouble. 

@Susky River Rat, that came thru too blurry to read on my end 

@JHoss in the last 5-7 years? Something like that they only started allowing catch and immediate release tournaments on the river. That is also when they changed you can fish for bass during that time on the river.  I do not think it will ever be a none catch and release waterway. That's my opinion. 

@TnRiver46 I posted the link. It is for the susky only. Catch and release year round and you cannot make repeated casts at beds. Now the north branch Susquehanna “above sunbury” you can keep and have live weigh ins. The majority of the kayak tournaments are done below sunbury. 

I’m a computer dummy but I don’t see any links 

25 minutes ago, Susky River Rat said:

@JHoss in the last 5-7 years? Something like that they only started allowing catch and immediate release tournaments on the river. That is also when they changed you can fish for bass during that time on the river.  I do not think it will ever be a none catch and release waterway. That's my opinion. 

We were set to go there in August of 22. I think we were fishing the lower end neat the Conowingo Dam if I remember correctly. Instead we fished the Pocomoke and it was a struggle compared to what the Susky should have been.

 

10 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

I’m a computer dummy but I don’t see any links 

It was too blurry for me too. I had to do some googling to find it:

https://www.pa.gov/content/dam/copapwp-pagov/en/fishandboat/documents/fishing/regulations/summarybook.pdf

3 hours ago, gim said:

Hauling them around in a live well for a weigh in with the sole purpose of holding them up on camera posing for the glory of it is completely different; especially if there is a way to have a tournament without doing it, such as a C & R format.

Holding them up for a camera is not the reason - The reason is that for the majority of practical purposes, CWR is not actually viable for standard bass tournaments.  Managing that many scales, the issue of discrepancy between that many scales, differing conditions causing differences in accuracy, contingency plans for if a scale fails, etc, etc...All that without even going into the reasons that involve dishonesty.  

 

You may not like it and that's fine, but its not just an easy-fix that people are opposing for petty reasons.  

 

I have fished in many CWR tournaments and I've also been a tournament officer managing CWR tournaments.  It works when it works, but on a large scale it simply doesn't and that won't change.

So then how are all these walleye, muskie, and yak tournaments doing it successfully?

 

It's not rocket science.  You can use length instead, or use a standard conversion.  My parents fish in about 8 walleye tournaments each season and the format worked so well when the pandemic started, they simply kept using it.  It can be done.  But it takes will power.  Something apparently a lot of bass event organizers do not have a lot of.

After you read all the ways that competitors can cheat in CWR tournaments you might think differently.  When you try to use length as the determining factor, I can honestly tell you anybody who fishes both St Clair and Erie for smallmouths will attest to the huge difference in body shape between those two bodies of water.  Erie smallmouth are literal footballs and St Clair smallies are long and thin.  Some Erie smallmouth make their way up to St Clair and it’s easy to tell them apart.  Granted, you are going to catch mainly the same body type of whatever fishery you are in but I mention it to show that body length isn’t a universal unit like weight.  

4 minutes ago, gim said:

So then how are all these walleye, muskie, and yak tournaments doing it successfully?

Seriously? 

 

My bass club has more anglers than the professional musky trail and I'd bet a single BFL event has more bass anglers in it than there are total musky tournament anglers to ever have competed.   Walleye tournaments are more popular, but we're still talking a tiny fraction of the volume of bass tournaments.  Kayaks don't have livewells, they are forced into their format.

 

I said CWR works where it works, which is true in all those cases.  It doesn't work for generalized bass tournaments on a large scale.  

 

This is off the original topic so I'll leave it at that.  

19 minutes ago, TOXIC said:

body length isn’t a universal unit like weight.  

 

Sure it is.  They're both measured on a bump board.  18 inches is 18 inches.

 

Certainly some fish weigh more than others of the same length.  Not denying that.  If everyone is fishing by the same rules, then everyone is subject to them too.

 

I would argue that scales vary far more from one to the other than a measuring board does.  That's because scales have to be calibrated frequently to ensure accuracy.  A measurement device does not.

@JHoss below the conowingo is tidal water. The Maryland waterways have different regulations. 

On 5/8/2025 at 2:59 PM, Swamp Girl said:

 

Oh, I know it's exciting, as I was casting to bass chasing shad this morning...and caught a couple.

 

When smallies in northwestern Ontario were plucking bugs off the surface, if you could land your popper within three feet of them within three seconds or so, it was fish on. Knowing this probability made it some of the most exciting fishing of my life. 

 

It's not as exciting as other sight fishing because spawners are more or less chained to the bed. Feeding bass are not they can spook or move out.

On 5/8/2025 at 2:21 PM, AlabamaSpothunter said:

The reality is that you can't effectively sight/bed fish on many bodies of water, and I'd say places that you can easily sight fish are in the minority.

 

Between the heavy spring rains and wind, combined with pollen, it's a true crap shoot on my waters if you're going to be able to see them.

 

I don't really get the whole I don't bed fish because it's unethical side of the argument because at the end of the day if you fish in the Spring, you're catching spawning fish 100%.  

 

To me sight fishing is the hardest technique in Bass fishing.   Drew Cook and John Cox have shown it's far more black magic than science.    

 

I managed to catch 22 fish over 5lbs during our recent spawning 6 week period, I spent significant time sight fishing during that period........one single 5lb fish out of 22 came from sight fishing.     

 

Your odds of catching big fish in the Spring casting in the blind are exponentially better than trying to look at them imho.

 

That said, there's just something incredibly addicting about trying to catch one with your eyes.  

 

Catching fish in the spring during pre-spawn is not the same thing as catching actual spawners. You might catch a few randos blind casting but based on how indifferent they are to presentations when I am intentionally casting to them I would guess that is not happening frequently.

 

When I used to bed fish after I let a fish go I would keep time on how long it took them to return to the bed and start defending again. It always took less than 5 minutes. They are utterly committed to guarding.

4 hours ago, gim said:

So then how are all these walleye, muskie, and yak tournaments doing it successfully?

 

It's not rocket science.  You can use length instead, or use a standard conversion.  My parents fish in about 8 walleye tournaments each season and the format worked so well when the pandemic started, they simply kept using it.  It can be done.  But it takes will power.  Something apparently a lot of bass event organizers do not have a lot of.

 

They are utterly resistant to change.

On 5/8/2025 at 3:32 PM, JHoss said:

Maybe it's different for me because I'm mostly tournament fishing. I'll gladly dedicate an hour (or 1/8th of my day) on one fish if I believe they'll be the on the team at weigh in. I think it's that old saying, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. A good fish I know is there and believe is catchable is far more valuable than the other fish I MIGHT find and catch blind fishing in that hour. 

 

Being able to quickly assess whether a bedded fish is catchable may be harder and more important than knowing how to catch them on beds. Cook and Cox can certainly read a fish better than 99.9% of anglers which makes bed fishing reasonably efficient for them. 

 

If I fished tournaments I would. But for fun fishing? Nah.

21 hours ago, JHoss said:

Is this real? How would they even enforce that? Can you make repeated casts to a piece of cover if you haven't seen a bedded fish?

 

I too would love to see a study or two to back that up? Modern fisheries science says that most lakes are overpopulated with bass, so removing fish from that population helps it. 

 

Apples and oranges. How many fawns does a doe have? How many eggs/polts does a turkey have? 2 maybe 3 fawns. 6-15 eggs/polts. How many deer inhabit an acre? How many turkey? Most suggest 10ish acres per deer and 30ish for turkey. Now how many eggs does one bass lay and how many bass per acre? One bass averages 4000-5000 eggs and most lakes should average 50-100 bass per acre. So you have a fawn or turkey born for every 2-3 acres but you have 200,000-1,000,000 bass eggs per acre. You could destroy 95% of beds at a given time and see no effect on a fishery the following year on most every lake in this country. That's why species with low recruitment rates reproduce in huge numbers, because nature expects the vast majority to not survive to adulthood. 

 

This might be true for someone who isn't good at bed fishing. People who are good at it, generally ignore the bucks and focus on the females. Heck, the good bed fisherman (especially in tournaments) skip over more beds than they fish because it's not worth it to target the males and smaller females. 

 

 

 

When a population of any species of fish is stunted/over-populated, you are correct it is an invaluable source to cull some of those fish to bring the population back in check.

 

That being said, you would never ever ever want the fish you cull to be the largest ones, nor are you really benefiting that population by killing eggs. You have to remove a large number of those "stunted" Bass to make a difference...

 

The reason this is occurring is, these watersheds lack a true "keystone species", which goes back to my comments on how Muskies have such a positive interaction with the watersheds they reside in. 

 

You have the right idea, just applying it wrong to some degree.

 

I don't live near unhealthy fisheries, I don't agree with your comments that most fisheries are overpopulated either, but have absolutely no desire to sit here and debate over something that in the end, will make no difference to anyone...

 

I don't like the ethics of bed fishing, I have never enjoyed fishing for any spawning fish, for starters they fight like crap when they are already exhausted from the stress of reproducing... This doesn't mean I feel everyone should do as I do either, don't really care. 

 

The real argument here is that catch & release is not necessary on all watersheds, every single time and at times, it can be a good thing to cull a few of the smaller fish... Anything that risks the largest females from not passing on their genetics is a bad thing for the ecosystem, such as specifically targeting the largest females on beds... 

 

 

 

 

13 hours ago, Pumpkin Lizard said:

It's not as exciting as other sight fishing because spawners are more or less chained to the bed.

 

I disagree. When you have three seconds to hit a six foot circle, that's thrilling. It's like having a brief shot at a bounding 8-point buck versus, to use your word, shooting at an 8-pointer "chained" to a tree.

 

1 hour ago, Goby said:

Anything that risks the largest females from not passing on their genetics is a bad thing for the ecosystem, such as specifically targeting the largest females on beds... 

 

1 hour ago, Swamp Girl said:

 

I disagree. When you have three seconds to hit a six foot circle, that's thrilling. It's like having a brief shot at a bounding 8-point buck versus, to use your word, shooting at an 8-pointer "chained" to a tree.

 

 

Yeah but if you wait a minute

you’ll get three more chances to hit that circle. 

8 minutes ago, Pumpkin Lizard said:

Yeah but if you wait a minute

you’ll get three more chances to hit that circle. 

 

The circle keeps moving. Sometimes it's twenty yards from my canoe and sometimes it's forty yards. It's my favorite way to fish, but YMMV.

19 hours ago, gim said:

Sure it is.  They're both measured on a bump board.  18 inches is 18 inches.

 

Last comment on this but you just made my point.  An 18 inch fish on Erie could weigh 3lbs for example and one from St Clair would weigh 2lbs.  Which fish is better? 
 

As for bed fishing, if you are dead set against fishing for “spawning “ fish then you better not fish at all in the spring.  Whether or not you can actually see the bed isn’t relevant.  They are ALL in some stage of the spawn and some bed deep enough you’ll never see the bed.  When FWC did studies on St Clair to determine if catch and release fishing would damage the spawn they concluded it would not.  Old regulation was you couldn’t fish smallmouth before the 3rd weekend in June if I remember correctly.  Now it’s catch and release only up to that date, after that it’s catch and keep if you so choose.   

I've tried it a few times, then I realized my bed is nowhere near the water 

Granted that beer might have been involved, but I've caught some real lunkers in my dreams, does that count 

This thread reminded me: a few years ago, I saw a fish bedding near my dock. It was 2/3 lb, couldn’t catch it either 😂 

I don’t. Why would anyone hate it ?

On 5/9/2025 at 12:07 PM, TnRiver46 said:

if I’ve said it once I’ve said it a million times, it’s about habitat. Has nothing to do with what people rod/reel fishing are doing 

This could be said about 90% of wildlife management issues. People get hyperfocused on menial issues and forget to consider habitat

4 hours ago, TOXIC said:

As for bed fishing, if you are dead set against fishing for “spawning “ fish then you better not fish at all in the spring.

I never said I was against bed fishing. Not once. Go back and re read my posts. Totally fine with it as long as the fish is released.

 

 

@gim my comment wasn’t directed at you.  I was speaking in general to those who don’t think it’s ethical.