Dobyns Champion 765/6

7’6  H/F BPS Tourney Special retractable is the main one, still have an old Fenwick 7’6” for nostalgia purposes.

@Lottabass haha that’s awesome!

A Cabelas 1986 vintage true Flippin stick. It’s telescopic and the stripper guide is off set to aid in the single haul line take up.  I put the Castaic on it because it’s similar in vintage year.  Pretty cool combo.

A Cabelas 1986 vintage true Flippin stick. It’s telescopic and the stripper guide is off set to aid in the single haul line take up.  I put the Castaic on it because it’s similar in vintage year.  Pretty cool combo.

12 hours ago, Columbia Craw said:

A Cabelas 1986 vintage true Flippin stick. It’s telescopic and the stripper guide is off set to aid in the single haul line take up.  I put the Castaic on it because it’s similar in vintage year.  Pretty cool combo.

Love those period correct pairings like that.  My two flipping sticks are a P2 Destroyer F711X Fast Shootin Model with a similar year TD-X and a Valkyrie 76 XXH with a lefty JDM Zillion HD.  Both a spiral wrapped rods with the 711X also being telescopic.  The 711X is the flipping and pitching stick and the Valkyrie XXH is the 1oz plus punching and Hudd crawling rod.  The handle length is adjustable so I can shorten it for punching then extend it for launching a Hudd.

 

On the super cheap end I have a 7MH Lews Hank Parker rod from Walmart that I have punched with 1oz tungsten before and it did great.  That rod has a super stiff slow loading tip like something from an XH swimbait rod and that allows it to handle 1oz dangling off the tip and keeps the bait from bobbing and picking up moss.  It punches pretty cleanly for a 7' $50 "MH".  It's got some bend in the middle so it keeps fish pinned once hooked.  Just don't go casting 1oz+ with the rod. It's still a MH, just a stiff tipped one.

 

 

Valkyrie with a USDM Zillion HD.  It has a lefty JDM Zillion HD now.  

@Bigbox99 First I’ve ever heard of an adjustable rod in that size category. Very cool. Very nice set up. 

13 hours ago, Columbia Craw said:

 

A Cabelas 1986 vintage true Flippin stick. It’s telescopic and the stripper guide is off set to aid in the single haul line take up. 

 

 

 

This is new to me. Can you explain how this "single haul line take up" is used for flipping and pitching? I did a search on this and it says it is a fly fishing technique with no connection to F&P:

 

"A "single haul" is a fly casting technique used to increase line speed and distance by pulling the fly line with the line hand during the forward cast. In contrast, "flipping" and "pitching" are bass fishing techniques for precision casting to shallow-water targets using a heavy rod and reel setup with fluorocarbon line to deliver a bait to specific structure like brush piles or docks. There is no direct connection between a fly fishing "single haul" and bass fishing "flipping" or "pitching," as they are unrelated techniques from different fishing disciplines." 

 

I don't think I have ever even seen a rod designed like yours.

 

Years ago I wrote an article about guide designs and never came across one like yours! Wish I had.

 

I was in contact with a number of authors of a custom rod book that developed a set of rules for custom rod building that I followed religiously for the article and still follow to this day, and what they came up defies what Cabelas did on that rod!

 

The following is from another forum post on it back in 2021:

 

"At the time I was writing the article, I referenced this same set of rules, but did not know their origins until I began digging into this forum's older posts on spiral wrapping rods. Now I know the author is Don Morton of Alabama. I had found his same set of rules published in a book I had found at the rod and reel repair shop I use to work at before this pandemic hit. The book I referenced was compiled in 2007 or 2008. And above in Don Morton's post I find the precise exact same set of rules, written identically, and in the same order as the book would have them some 7 years later, yet in the book they are not credited to Don Morton, but the post above clearly shows he had to be the original source but worked with other custom rod builders like Pat Vin Zant and Terry Cheatham for the final compilation I had come across and used for the article.

 

And here is the text of the rules I used to develop my own way of spiral wrapping bass fishing rods:

1. The line should run as straight as possible from the reel to the tip of the rod.
2. The line should form as small of an angle as possible with each guide.
3. The line should touch only the top or bottom of the guides in any fishing position.
4. The line should pass through the guides with no line chatter or vibration.
5. The line should not touch or pass the rod in any fishing position, casting or retrieving.
6. The rod should be balanced.
7. The rod should be stable in all fishing positions.
8. The rod should track in all fishing positions without experiencing torque or twisting.

 

I think the rules as found in a published custom rod book as published by RodCrafters Guild as I recall show very clearly what the issue is with the Cabelas rod you have. In order to create a rod like yours some of the rules were bent to do it.

 

So my curiosity gets the better of me.

Do you do the line haul technique in F&P?

 

If I did it, the offset guides would have to be or should be on the left side of the rod. Did they sell both types at the time this rod was sold in 1986?

 

And I am also curious if anyone else did this? Any other brands of rods incorporate this "line haul" offset guide? If so, I have never seen it. This is indeed a first for me.

 

How common is this line haul technique in F&P?

 

I really appreciate you showing this rod. It seems like a unique bit of rod history that I have never heard of and was not aware of until now.

 

I am sitting on some new rod ideas Don Morton mailed to me. He works with engineering students at colleges and universities in Alabama towards developing new ideas for fishing rods. He is getting really old now and may be fully retired but he was working on new rod ideas up until he was like 86 years old. I was also in touch with the legendary rod builders like Pat Vin Zant and Terry Cheatham were all influencers and great teachers. Terry was even my employer for awhile. So I had close access to some really great custom rod builders at the top of custom rod building for a number of years and this idea on your rod has never come up before.

 

Really awesome bit of rod history right there! I will be looking deeper into this idea of line haul on F&P rods. Why did this idea move from fly rods into F&P rods I can only wonder? Who is behind this idea making an appearance on your rod.

 

Your rod would be a great specimen for the rare rod thread.

 

Do you have any paperwork or documentation on the rod from Cabelas?

 

An interesting side step to this offset guide on your rod is that when constructing a spiral wrapped rod often stripper guides are placed in nearly the same spot as found on your unique rod. This would indicate that a rod can be built in spiral wrapped design that also does what your rod does. Both in one rod. This is fascinating to me.

 

Your rod could be from a blip in rod making history. A tiny window of time when it was built that came and went. Not done before your rod and possibly not done after your rod unless other examples can be found.

 

In 1985 Denny Brauer designed a F&P rod for Daiwa that is today still the standard. A 7'6" H F with extra tip. Other brands copied that same design to quickly cash in on what Denny and Daiwa were doing at the time.

 

Your Cabelas rod by appearance seems to come from that same rush to sell such rods, and that Cabelas was possibly adding in your offset guide as an extra sales trick to try and lift their prominence and standing among buyers. That something different trick no one else has.

 

I would like to track down who at Cabelas was behind this idea crossover.

 

Your rod could be a super rare part of rod history and its story really needs to be told and added into the overall history of U.S. rod manufacturing. I hope you don't mind if I save your photos. I plan on researching this one deeper. Shame most of the guys are all gone now. I will see if Don Morton is still around. I bet he knows!

 

Another side issue to your rod is Gary Loomis told me he and Don Mook when they were partners in the LCI, inc., or Loomis Composites Incorporated company that he sold blanks to everyone including Bass Pro and Browning. The brown color of your blank is nearly identical to the rods Browning was receiving from LCI at around the same time period.

 

There is a possibility that your rod could be a Gary Loomis and Don Mook blank. If I ever see Gary again at ICAST I will be sure to ask him about your rod. Your rod could be more historical than any of us realize. And more valuable as well.

 

57 minutes ago, FloridaFishinFool said:

...

This is new to me. Can you explain how this "single haul line take up" is used for flipping and pitching?

...

Cagey...The line haul is used only for flipping. Pitching is totally different (cast).

 

The rod he's showing would be held in the left hand with a right handed reel.

If you were holding the rod straight up...you would pull out enough line (holding in your right hand) and the lure would be hanging about where the reel is. You would then just swing out the lure and let the line into the water. If I could guess...I would say there is about 12-15 feet of line out. You never engage the reel ...you just pull the line out with your right hand for the next cast. Somewhere down the line people tended to translate pitching and flipping as the same thing. My flipping rod is alot longer than my pitching rod. Saying that...you can see that the offset guide is to aid the flip as he would be holding the line out to the right.

I am with you on this Chris. I merely say F&P as a catch all phrase probably incorrectly.

 

I mentioned if I had a rod like his I would need the offset guide on the left side.

 

Since I spiral wrap most rods, mine have this offset guide anyways.

 

Its a really awesome subject. All new to me what his rod is showing me.

 

I am just really interested to find out the how and why this technique was crossed over from fly fishing to that Cabelas rod. There has to be a back story to be found somewhere. I will try and search this one out. Inquiring minds wanna know! And I gotta know. Rods like this one don't come along every day.

 

Does anyone know if any other brands ever did this? If Cabelas is the only one would make it even more rare and unique.

3 hours ago, F14A-B said:

@Bigbox99 First I’ve ever heard of an adjustable rod in that size category. Very cool. Very nice set up. 

The Valkyries are interesting rods.  They all have the adjustable length handle except for maybe the world expedition.  Their composition varies by rod and they run from full glass to a blend to full graphite.  The 76XXH is a massively heavy, probably all graphite, rod but it floats in your hand.  Without a reel on the rod it will balance out on the lock nut with the handle in the shortest configuration and balance out somewhere on the reel seat with the handle extended.  Without a reel.  It will also pitch 2.5 oz Savage Gear 3D Bluegill slow sink like my other normal rods pitch a 5" senko.  Just effortless and right on target like it's not actually nearly 3 oz of bait.  It's a crazy rod and that's the appeal of it to me as an enthusiast/luxury/curiosity item. 

 

https://www.tackletour.com/reviewmegabassvalkyrie.html

20 minutes ago, FloridaFishinFool said:

...

Does anyone know if any other brands ever did this? If Cabelas is the only one would make it even more rare and unique.

Never seen that either...very unique.

I would also need the offset to the left.
@Columbia Craw Is it possible that someone just made a modification and moved that guide?

If it is an aftermarket modification then that would blow the whole history of it right out of the water. I hope this is a Cabelas thing. So much cooler that way!

 

But still a one of a kind find so far either way.

 

I have a Daiwa Tatula 7'6" flipping rod. They call it MH/F, but it's basically a "flipping MH" (heavy). It has more than enough power for anything I'd ever need.

6 hours ago, Chris Catignani said:

Never seen that either...very unique.

I would also need the offset to the left.
@Columbia Craw Is it possible that someone just made a modification and moved that guide?

No.  It is in the design.  The rod was intended for traditional Flippin and not for pitching.  My neighbor, Don W. bought it when it was introduced but never used it.  His son gave it to me when his Dad passed as a keep sake.

To clarify the issue of single haul line take up.  The technique was designed or developed by Dave Gliebe and Dee Thomas.  Google Dee and watch his video, Flippin With Dee Thomas.  My first Flippin Stick was a straight handle, no trigger, Fenwick HMG telescoping model.

Lamiglas jumped on the band wagon early in there Certified Pro series. I had two of them as well.  Pool cues but they had triggered reel seats. Lamiglas produced that Cabelas model.  There are many many anglers who flip.  When distance is required they can pitch with the same combo.  The history is amazing and many pros, Denny Braun, Gary Klein and Shaw Grigsby made a career flipping. Boy this thread morphed.

Thank you for that Columbia Craw! You said: "Lamiglas produced that Cabelas model."

 

Let me point out a couple of things...

 

The history of Lamiglas is very interesting! This is from their current website:

 

https://www.lamiglas.com/pages/about-lamiglas?srsltid=AfmBOorGksKqBbfnhyBgAyJXfOtXC_zLstuBmIVPhZtH8vWauUqpz9oP

 

"Lamiglas invested in hiring top-level Boeing Engineers to pioneer blank designs that had never been produced before. This commitment to innovation and design provided the groundwork that continues to build today."

 

This is a very curious way of spinning their history while at same time cutting out the man who really did this, one of Lamiglas employees named Gary Loomis.

 

No one else at Lamiglas did what Gary Loomis did. He is the man who went down to Boeing and stood at the employee entrance gate day after day talking to Boeing employees seeking out carbon graphite composite engineers there working on top secret Dept of Defense aerospace engineering.

 

Gary Loomis is the man who made that contact. Gary Loomis is the man who is to this day credited with making the very first carbon graphite fishing rods. Notice how Lamiglas avoided this in their history of?

 

From internet:

"Gary Loomis worked for Lamiglas in the 1970s, where he developed and helped commercialize the first graphite fishing rods by collaborating with Boeing engineers and perfecting the process."

 

It says Gary Loomis did this. NOT Lamiglas!

 

Gary Loomis's work at Lamiglas

Background:

 

Gary Loomis was a machinist and avid steelhead angler who recognized the need for better fly rods. 

 

Transition to Graphite:

 

He began experimenting with new materials, eventually working at Lamiglas to develop rods using graphite, a new composite material. 

 

Collaboration with Boeing:

 

Loomis worked with Boeing engineers who were working on the proposed supersonic transport (SST) project, which involved graphite, to design and develop Lamiglas's first graphite rods. 

 

Rod Development:

 

The new Lamiglas graphite rods gained recognition when baseball legend Ted Williams praised one at a sports show in 1974, which helped the rods gain popularity and outpace competitors like Fenwick." 

 

What is still murky is what happened to Lamiglas when Gary Loomis split off to start his own company. A book should be written about this history! Hidden U.S. rod blank history to this day. Fenwick did try and get in on the graphite game but without the same level of engineering and paid a price for it with rods that snapped and did not hold up. Gary was keeping his engineering close to himself as he left to go start his own companies. Fenwick and Lamiglas had some catching up to do, and there is possibly some bad blood in there over this!

 

I can't blame or fault Gary Loomis one bit for what he did. Any of us would have done it too!

 

So it was indeed Gary Loomis who brought to and delivered to Lamiglas those Boeing engineers who brought with them the technology to begin making graphite rods for the first time in rod blank manufacturing history.

 

Gary Loomis started his own company with a partner named Don Mook and together they formed Loomis Composites Incorporated or LCI, Inc. making graphite rods for everyone he could sell them to. Others had to play catch up.

 

The point of this comment is, that rod of yours IS a Gary Loomis legacy rod! That rod is a piece of history! A museum specimen! Thanks for posting it and I hope you will consider posting it in the rare rods thread as well!

 

Kind of cool to fish with one of a kind iconic national history! Now all I gotta do is try and track down the story of that one offset guide! Was this a Lamiglas decision? Or, a Cabelas decision?

 

One of the interesting tidbits from history is that it is a fly rod fishing technique. Look at source of the rod itself... "Gary Loomis was a machinist and avid steelhead angler who recognized the need for better fly rods."

 

What if? What if? Hmmmm.... could it be? What if it was Gary Loomis himself who came up with this? I am going to contact Aleks Maslov asap on this one and see if he will ask Gary Loomis himself to provide some details on your rod. I'll report back if I get any response to this one! Super cool history in this thread! I can't thank you enough for posting that rod! Your specimen could rewrite some U.S. rod history and add a whole new chapter!

 

That rod belongs in a museum one day!

 

My Loomis radar was going off on that rod. Glad to know my gut feeling instinct was right on target for this one. Glad I did not miss this one.

 

Would it be possible to get some higher resolution images of it? The ones you posted here are small sized. I will use what you posted to send to Aleks so maybe he will ask Gary about it. Gary is getting old and having more trouble walking. At the last ICAST show I met up with them Gary had a mobility scooter.

 

-----------------------ADDED:

 

One more important detail the stated source of your rod has helped to nail down.

 

When I talked to Gary Loomis at ICAST he told me he had sold rods to a lot of companies that I had no previous knowledge of. To Johnny Morris and Bass Pro, and even to Browning. But Gary did not say which company had done this. I thought it was LCI.

 

I have a Browning 6'6" MHF rod that is identical in color to your blank from the same era. After talking with Gary I had suspected my Browning rod was possibly an early LCI rod. I never once considered it could have been Lamiglas.

 

But now that you have identified that color and type of blank as having been sourced from Lamiglas has now finally nailed down some level of confirmation to the exact source.

 

So we both have rods sourced to that same time period and same source. Your rod has just raised the level of value to me for my Browning rod.

 

My Browning rod is an exceptional blank. I have loved that rod since the second I acquired it not even knowing it was sourced from Gary Loomis legacy. I turned it into a spiral wrapped rod and it is one of my favorite rat'l trap and swimbait rods of all time. And I have around 100 rods but that Browning is in my top 10 and may now move up some to top 5.

 

It is a shame that rods keep changing over time and that the blanks they made decades ago will never be made again. Maybe they can get close today but there was a time period in rod blank manufacturing history that was kind of like a sweet spot that will never come again- at least for some of us old timers. Just the right balance. Today's rods can be too stiff and inflexible. Too fast. Some of the old timers in this game unknowingly found that sweet spot in rod development.

 

7'3" H/MF Kistler KLX.  It's pretty stout.  I like the MF action and the bump in the cork grip.

 

My #2 is a 7'3" HMH/XF Kistler Helium, just like @Bass Rutten.

I have a friend on here who added some information on a thread that was going on this past early spring and it’s how & what he said that got my attention. So I sent a personal message. I ended up buying a rod built on what is called XMW Carbon. The blank is rolled by Brad Loomis, Gary’s son. The company is Patriot and yes they are in Woodland, WA. Talon uses the blank and builds the rods. I’m going to also say I’ve bought 3 total this year. Best money I’ve spent on a rod in awhile. The 7’5” MH weighs 4.7 and is phenomenal. 7’ is 4.0. I’m going to tag him but he’s hunting Elk. ( I wish I was) hopefully he will add to this thread when he can. @Rockhopper

Talon is across the street from Edge. 

Steez power pitch 

Steez bottom contact 

73xh expride 

77xh expride 

dobyns 766 flip 

daiwa rebellion 7’8h 

zodias 7’9xh 

 

I like flipping stick: 

8 hours ago, FloridaFishinFool said:

Thank you for that Columbia Craw! You said: "Lamiglas produced that Cabelas model."

 

Let me point out a couple of things...

 

The history of Lamiglas is very interesting! This is from their current website:

 

https://www.lamiglas.com/pages/about-lamiglas?srsltid=AfmBOorGksKqBbfnhyBgAyJXfOtXC_zLstuBmIVPhZtH8vWauUqpz9oP

 

"Lamiglas invested in hiring top-level Boeing Engineers to pioneer blank designs that had never been produced before. This commitment to innovation and design provided the groundwork that continues to build today."

 

This is a very curious way of spinning their history while at same time cutting out the man who really did this, one of Lamiglas employees named Gary Loomis.

 

No one else at Lamiglas did what Gary Loomis did. He is the man who went down to Boeing and stood at the employee entrance gate day after day talking to Boeing employees seeking out carbon graphite composite engineers there working on top secret Dept of Defense aerospace engineering.

 

Gary Loomis is the man who made that contact. Gary Loomis is the man who is to this day credited with making the very first carbon graphite fishing rods. Notice how Lamiglas avoided this in their history of?

 

From internet:

"Gary Loomis worked for Lamiglas in the 1970s, where he developed and helped commercialize the first graphite fishing rods by collaborating with Boeing engineers and perfecting the process."

 

It says Gary Loomis did this. NOT Lamiglas!

 

Gary Loomis's work at Lamiglas

Background:

 

Gary Loomis was a machinist and avid steelhead angler who recognized the need for better fly rods. 

 

Transition to Graphite:

 

He began experimenting with new materials, eventually working at Lamiglas to develop rods using graphite, a new composite material. 

 

Collaboration with Boeing:

 

Loomis worked with Boeing engineers who were working on the proposed supersonic transport (SST) project, which involved graphite, to design and develop Lamiglas's first graphite rods. 

 

Rod Development:

 

The new Lamiglas graphite rods gained recognition when baseball legend Ted Williams praised one at a sports show in 1974, which helped the rods gain popularity and outpace competitors like Fenwick." 

 

What is still murky is what happened to Lamiglas when Gary Loomis split off to start his own company. A book should be written about this history! Hidden U.S. rod blank history to this day. Fenwick did try and get in on the graphite game but without the same level of engineering and paid a price for it with rods that snapped and did not hold up. Gary was keeping his engineering close to himself as he left to go start his own companies. Fenwick and Lamiglas had some catching up to do, and there is possibly some bad blood in there over this!

 

I can't blame or fault Gary Loomis one bit for what he did. Any of us would have done it too!

 

So it was indeed Gary Loomis who brought to and delivered to Lamiglas those Boeing engineers who brought with them the technology to begin making graphite rods for the first time in rod blank manufacturing history.

 

Gary Loomis started his own company with a partner named Don Mook and together they formed Loomis Composites Incorporated or LCI, Inc. making graphite rods for everyone he could sell them to. Others had to play catch up.

 

The point of this comment is, that rod of yours IS a Gary Loomis legacy rod! That rod is a piece of history! A museum specimen! Thanks for posting it and I hope you will consider posting it in the rare rods thread as well!

 

Kind of cool to fish with one of a kind iconic national history! Now all I gotta do is try and track down the story of that one offset guide! Was this a Lamiglas decision? Or, a Cabelas decision?

 

One of the interesting tidbits from history is that it is a fly rod fishing technique. Look at source of the rod itself... "Gary Loomis was a machinist and avid steelhead angler who recognized the need for better fly rods."

 

What if? What if? Hmmmm.... could it be? What if it was Gary Loomis himself who came up with this? I am going to contact Aleks Maslov asap on this one and see if he will ask Gary Loomis himself to provide some details on your rod. I'll report back if I get any response to this one! Super cool history in this thread! I can't thank you enough for posting that rod! Your specimen could rewrite some U.S. rod history and add a whole new chapter!

 

That rod belongs in a museum one day!

 

My Loomis radar was going off on that rod. Glad to know my gut feeling instinct was right on target for this one. Glad I did not miss this one.

 

Would it be possible to get some higher resolution images of it? The ones you posted here are small sized. I will use what you posted to send to Aleks so maybe he will ask Gary about it. Gary is getting old and having more trouble walking. At the last ICAST show I met up with them Gary had a mobility scooter.

 

-----------------------ADDED:

 

One more important detail the stated source of your rod has helped to nail down.

 

When I talked to Gary Loomis at ICAST he told me he had sold rods to a lot of companies that I had no previous knowledge of. To Johnny Morris and Bass Pro, and even to Browning. But Gary did not say which company had done this. I thought it was LCI.

 

I have a Browning 6'6" MHF rod that is identical in color to your blank from the same era. After talking with Gary I had suspected my Browning rod was possibly an early LCI rod. I never once considered it could have been Lamiglas.

 

But now that you have identified that color and type of blank as having been sourced from Lamiglas has now finally nailed down some level of confirmation to the exact source.

 

So we both have rods sourced to that same time period and same source. Your rod has just raised the level of value to me for my Browning rod.

 

My Browning rod is an exceptional blank. I have loved that rod since the second I acquired it not even knowing it was sourced from Gary Loomis legacy. I turned it into a spiral wrapped rod and it is one of my favorite rat'l trap and swimbait rods of all time. And I have around 100 rods but that Browning is in my top 10 and may now move up some to top 5.

 

It is a shame that rods keep changing over time and that the blanks they made decades ago will never be made again. Maybe they can get close today but there was a time period in rod blank manufacturing history that was kind of like a sweet spot that will never come again- at least for some of us old timers. Just the right balance. Today's rods can be too stiff and inflexible. Too fast. Some of the old timers in this game unknowingly found that sweet spot in rod development.

 

Im not trying to hijack this thread but the history of rod making is much deeper.  My information comes from former employees of both Lamiglas and the original Loomis, LCI, And G Loomis. 
 

Gary, whom I know but not well and Dick Posey were in business together.  Both sought to develop graphite blanks.  Sage was already marketing graphite and Fenwick was right on Sage’s heels. Lamiglas was a leader in glass blanks.

 

Gary and Dick developed the Lamiglas graphite 1000 series.  These were Steelhead and salmon models.  There were some differing opinion as to the further development and Gary left Lamiglas to pursue his ideas.  Rumor has it, rumor, some mandrels went with Gary.

 

Gary established his new company, also in Woodland. That company was reformed at least twice.  I purchased blanks that were Loomis and LCI, Loomis Composites and G Loomis back when building rods. I toured the tiny LCI production facility.

 

I also had friends who worked for Gary and the Posey family.  I had access to rods being made by or via Lamiglas for other companies including Kistler and prototypes for Skeet Reese and Gary Dobyns. The Posey family were instrumental in Dobyns getting off the ground.  
 

I will admit Gary Loomis has developed some of the most cutting edge technology in all of rod building and NFC/Edge is his baby.  I give credit to Sage and Fenwick as much as to Dick and Gary.  I’m a history buff at large.  The story of Lamiglas and G Loomis is amazing.  Hope folks appreciate the legacy.