8 minutes ago, Jrob78 said:

If anything line plays a much more important role in bite detection and is why fluoro transmits bites so much better than braid on a slack line.

If you disappear one of these days, we'll let the authorities know to start with the rod makers.  

 

   I have often said that I feel many, many bites first with the thumb and forefinger of my reel hand.....but how that bite transmission is affected by the rod 'sensitivity', I don't know....and don't really want to think about.

1 hour ago, Jrob78 said:

Yeah I'm not sure about that. Bite detection relies on the line transmitting vibrations to the rod and then up the rod to your hand. The rod isn't generally bent while any of this is happening. Although I'm not even sure if the rod were bent while the bite was happening it would change the vibrations moving through the blank. It would probably make the bite more easily felt because the line would be tight and there would be more line contact with the guides.

 

If anything line plays a much more important role in bite detection and is why fluoro transmits bites so much better than braid on a slack line.

So you agree with me, the rod being bent would create additional load and transmit more energy versus not being under load yet. And the reason the line makes a difference again is energy transmission, tight braid has no stretch so it transfers energy readily, limp us obviously a different story. Slack fluoro can only because of its stiffness so if it moves at all it will create friction causing vibration and transferring energy.

 

And to clarify - as you said the line transfers energy to the rod and then rod to your hand. But if there is give in the rod the vibration is absorbed not transferred much like that slack braid you mentioned.

 

Do you think mono is equally sensitive to fluoro? I've only ever heard people say, and my experience confirms, they fluoro is more sensitive than mono - for the exact same reason the faster rod action is more sensitive - mono has give, it stretches. If a rod "stretches" by bending it dulls the vibration making it less sensitive.

 

Again, rod action is absolutely not the only determining factor, but that is the science behind why action impacts sensitivity.

 

Grace and peace

I'm still mostly 6'6", 6'8", 6'10", and 7'. I think rods are getting way too long. Everything is cyclical though.

If the rod is bent, you already know you have a fish on. What does that have to do with sensitivity?  Try again. Still don't get it. Tell me how taper affects sensitivity. 

1 hour ago, PUTitinYOURmouthFISH said:

mono has give, it stretches.

 

A bass picking up your lure does not stretch mono.

 

A bass picking up your lure does not flex your rod.

1 hour ago, PUTitinYOURmouthFISH said:

So you agree with me, the rod being bent would create additional load and transmit more energy versus not being under load yet. And the reason the line makes a difference again is energy transmission, tight braid has no stretch so it transfers energy readily, limp us obviously a different story. Slack fluoro can only because of its stiffness so if it moves at all it will create friction causing vibration and transferring energy.

 

And to clarify - as you said the line transfers energy to the rod and then rod to your hand. But if there is give in the rod the vibration is absorbed not transferred much like that slack braid you mentioned.

 

Do you think mono is equally sensitive to fluoro? I've only ever heard people say, and my experience confirms, they fluoro is more sensitive than mono - for the exact same reason the faster rod action is more sensitive - mono has give, it stretches. If a rod "stretches" by bending it dulls the vibration making it less sensitive.

 

Again, rod action is absolutely not the only determining factor, but that is the science behind why action impacts sensitivity.

 

Grace and peace

I understand what you're trying to say but I don't agree with the rod action part of it. If it does make a difference it's so minute that it wouldn't be perceivable by us. 2 graphite rods by the same maker, 1 XF and 1 MF with everything else being equal shouldn't have any perceivable difference in sensitivity.

 

If you're talking about slack line sensitivity the rod isn't bent or under load so the action has no bearing on anything. If you're talking about, let's say, dragging a jig, the line is tight and as we've agreed on, a rod under load with tight line will transmit vibration better.  If you're fishing a properly weighted bait to the rod, there won't be much bend at all while fishing a bottom contact bait anyway. The action is only going to change where the rod is bent, not how much it bends, as that is power. 

 

As for line, in my opinion, 2 things make fluoro more sensitive than mono, the density and hardness of the line and the fact that fluoro sinks. (Or is that 3 things?) The sinking line gets you closer to your bait with less bow in the line so that you're closer to a tight line even when it's slack. 

 

I'm not even sure if that makes sense, it's been a long day. lol

15 hours ago, Jrob78 said:

Yeah I'm not sure about that. Bite detection relies on the line transmitting vibrations to the rod and then up the rod to your hand.

 

To continue, from the hand the vibration moves up your arm & then into the brain. The brain is the most important piece, it has to determine if what is being felt is fish or false alarm.

 

If y'all are waiting to see line movement or rod it movement y'all be late!

 

Second most important is the hand, some people's hands can detect smaller vibrations than others.

 

It's like the old saying, it ain't the arrow, it's the Indian!

12 minutes ago, Catt said:

The brain is the most important piece

Worth repeating.

On 9/28/2022 at 2:36 AM, Catt said:

 

Medium Heavy X-Fast is all I've used for worms/jigs since 2005.

 

My perfered length is 6' 10" but currently my worm rod is 7' & my jig rod is 7' 1".

 

It really is all I really need.

I think i have been misunderstood a bit - I was never conflating sensitivity and a rod actually being bent.

 

At first I was going to send a video of a lecture about engineering and physics regarding true natural frequency and some other details that apply to what I was saying.

 

Then I decided I wasn't going to bother cuz it's a long video and probably boring to most and I'll just drop it.

 

But then I bumped into this entirely coincidentally- very short read from a reputable rod blank manufacturer mentioning the impact of action and sensitivity.

https://www.fishmhx.com/blogs/tips-tricks/understanding-rod-action-and-rod-power

 

then I wasnt gonna bother sending that because it's been a few days, but now I'm tired and avoiding sleep to avoid waking up to avoid tomorrow to avoid work because I'd rather be fishing.

On 9/27/2022 at 12:15 PM, QUAKEnSHAKE said:

One good thing about longer rod is the small fish I always catch feel bigger than with shorter rod.

Actually, the rod’s length is independent of my fishing theorem that still holds true to this day. 
 

“Once hooked, the size of the fish is inversely proportional to the distance it is from the angler.” 
 

i.e., the fish diminishes in size the closer it gets to you, lol ? 

 

For me, smallies or notorious for this. ?
 

 

6 hours ago, islandbass said:

Actually, the rod’s length is independent of my fishing theorem that still holds true to this day. 
 

“Once hooked, the size of the fish is inversely proportional to the distance it is from the angler.” 
 

i.e., the fish diminishes in size the closer it gets to you, lol ? 

 

For me, smallies or notorious for this. ?
 

 

true but thats mainly because a 2 pound smallmouth fights like a 5 pound largemouth!

I don't see how leverage would apply to sensitivity. You're dangling line still transmits vibration and it has no action. 

I have rods from 6' to 8' and notice no difference in sensitivity.  Also when it comes to Fast vs X-fast, I don't notice much of a difference there either.  Where I do notice the difference, and this is just as subjective as the rest of this thread,  is how soon I notice a bite. I seem to notice it sooner on X-fast rods. The next thing for me with an X-fast rod is that hook sets are faster and easier. Another area, and this is depending on the rod manufacturer's line of products, is some Medium rods will feel more sensitive than Heavy rods (again this subjective).

 

I think all of this depends on how much time/experience you have. A rod, to me, is a way of detecting information and everybody receives/detects that information differently. 

2 hours ago, Hulkster said:

true but thats mainly because a 2 pound smallmouth fights like a 5 pound largemouth!

No doubt. I took my dad smallie fishing one time and his rod gets slammed down really hard. I thought he had in Iaconelli speak a “giant” on since his rod was really bent over. Turns out the bugger was barely 1 pound. I know it was at least a 5 pounder at point “fish on”, and shrank the closer it got to my dad, ? lol

On 9/29/2022 at 1:31 PM, Boomstick said:

Then some extra fasts have a slightly less short tip but a stout one.

There are two possible explanations for this.  1.  It's not really Xfast action 2.  It has a soft/weak spot in the middle of the rod.  The latter is not very likely.

Being thoroughly  entertained...

44 minutes ago, Deleted account said:

Being thoroughly entertained...

Going on my own personal experience, separating fly poop from pepper is not a skill one acquires overnight . . . . if ever.

@Catt@RB 77  @T-Billy @FishTank @otherpeoplewhouseanXFrod

 

When you're bringing a fish in don't you find it necessary to keep more pressure and bring'em in quick so they don't find slack and get off? Any problems with ripped mouths?

 

Are you using braid with your XF?

Im not real tall i wade the rivers alot for Smallies here in Missouri. I have a 7 ft 6 spinning rod. I can throw light lures father and have more control in current. It is a med xf Carbon light 2.0 . It picks up line really quick also .

3 hours ago, PUTitinYOURmouthFISH said:

 When you're bringing a fish in don't you find it necessary to keep more pressure and bring'em in quick so they don't find slack and get off? Any problems with ripped mouths?

 

Are you using braid with your XF?

 

I don't care if I'm throwing a Medium Moderate, Medium Heavy X-Fast, or Heavy Fast, I take control on the hookset & don't let up until they're on the thumb.

 

In my waters anything less will result in a hung up fish.

 

I'm using Berkley Big Game with X-Fast & braid with Fast. 

On 9/28/2022 at 7:49 AM, Darth-Baiter said:

lets take a Dobyns rod.  any rod.  say a Fury 733.  you think they just cut 3" off the butt-end and call it a 703?

 

I ask cuz I dont really know.

During an interview Gary Dobyns dispelled that myth. Each model with two exceptions, is individually designed with it’s own mandrel.The DC 732/733 sf are from a cut down earlier generation Xtreme 742/743sf. 

8 hours ago, PUTitinYOURmouthFISH said:

@Catt@RB 77  @T-Billy @FishTank @otherpeoplewhouseanXFrod

 

When you're bringing a fish in don't you find it necessary to keep more pressure and bring'em in quick so they don't find slack and get off? Any problems with ripped mouths?

 

Are you using braid with your XF?

Yep. I load the rod with the hookset and winch on 'em. Lift up, reel down is for bigger fish like musky and catfish. Braid with F, XF, MF. Using a rod with appropriate power for the hook size eliminates ripped mouths.

On 10/11/2022 at 1:58 PM, MickD said:

There are two possible explanations for this.  1.  It's not really Xfast action 2.  It has a soft/weak spot in the middle of the rod.  The latter is not very likely.

Typically, extra fast typically refers to the length of the tip, not the stiffness. It is common that extra fast tips have softer tips than the fast from the same line. Of course as we know all manufacturers are different, and some are not consistent in this regard in the same line.

 

A perfect example is the St Croix Victory line. The 7'3" H/XF "Full Contact Finesse" rod has a very short but soft tip, and then it's solid backbone after that, but it makes a very good jig rod. The 7'3" MH/F "The Marshall" has a longer tip, but it's much stiffer.

1 hour ago, Boomstick said:

Typically, extra fast typically refers to the length of the tip, not the stiffness. It is common that extra fast tips have softer tips than the fast from the same line. Of course as we know all manufacturers are different, and some are not consistent in this regard in the same line.

 

A perfect example is the St Croix Victory line. The 7'3" H/XF "Full Contact Finesse" rod has a very short but soft tip, and then it's solid backbone after that, but it makes a very good jig rod. The 7'3" MH/F "The Marshall" has a longer tip, but it's much stiffer.

Extra fast refers to where the rod initially bends.  Yes , it is not the stiffness.  In fact Xfast rods of the same power as other actions will have the softest, less stiff, tips.  I don't even know what a "longer tip" is.  Where does the tip start and end?