How often do you think large river smallmouth fall prey to shovel heads in deeper winter holes?

[Ohioguy25]

With the extreme drought we’ve had this year river levels are historically low.  Normal winter holes have shrunk in depth and diameter.  This has concentrated the fish, with wintering smallmouth being forced to share a relatively small hole with larger predators like flatheads.

 

In my system, flatheads are the largest predator in the water and while they’re not enormous, there are plenty of 10-20 lb fish. My friend caught a 38 pounder over the summer.  My question is, how many trophy smallmouth have been slurped up by large shovels, or are the larger older fish wise enough to avoid this encounter? If the latter, where would they go in the sudden absence of their known winter habitat?

[TnRiver46]

They don’t have to eat much all winter long (the bass or the flathead)

 

there’s some serious catfishermen here that fish all winter and they stop catching flatheads all together in the coldest part of winter. Blues still bite 

[Spankey]

I often have to think and wonder the same thing. Do they put a hurting on larger smallies during the season. I’m no biologist by a long shot but I don’t think a large Smallie has a problem eluding a Flathead. But I could be wrong. 

[Ohioguy25]

11 minutes ago, Spankey said:

I often have to think and wonder the same thing. Do they put a hurting on larger smallies during the season. I’m no biologist by a long shot but I don’t think a large Smallie has a problem eluding a Flathead. But I could be wrong. 

They’re definitely faster 

[Deleted account]

If they are unnaturally concentrated in with big cats, yeah, they are going to get slurped like M&Ms...

[Woody B]

FWIW a friend of mine who's an avid catfisherman says flatheads hibernate when the water get's below 50 degrees.   

[PaulVE64]

Like an ice cube?

That's how I pictured it as a kid.

[Susky River Rat]

I know here in the susky the smallies tend to elude the winter holes a little more now because of the flatheads. We also have musky here as well. I Have always thought in my head that pressure and predators are what is making the smallies change their winter habits. 

[Blue Raider Bob]

On 11/28/2022 at 11:57 AM, Spankey said:

I often have to think and wonder the same thing. Do they put a hurting on larger smallies during the season. I’m no biologist by a long shot but I don’t think a large Smallie has a problem eluding a Flathead. But I could be wrong. 

That makes me think of another predator/prey relationship. How do River otters catch bass when we all know how fast a bass can swim? The otters are fast but no way can they match the bullet speed of a bass but yet when they migrate past my pond each winter, I find bass skulls on the bank and piles of scales in the scat. It is disheartening to see what remains of my largest bass. They never stay longer than a couple of days but they feed when they are here. I've shown this picture before but here is one of the otters on my dock digesting lunch!

[TnRiver46]

17 minutes ago, Blue Raider Bob said:

That makes me think of another predator/prey relationship. How do River otters catch bass when we all know how fast a bass can swim? The otters are fast but no way can they match the bullet speed of a bass but yet when they migrate past my pond each winter, I find bass skulls on the bank and piles of scales in the scat. It is disheartening to see what remains of my largest bass. They never stay longer than a couple of days but they feed when they are here. I've shown this picture before but here is one of the otters on my dock digesting lunch!

They catch them with their mouth and forelimbs! (Sorry couldn’t resist). It’s kill or starve in the world of a carnivore, failure isn’t an option 

[flyfisher]

Flatheads and Blues do much more damage during the non winter months.  Bass are not going to hit a wintering hole that has a predator in it or nearby as they will find new locations.  Can they be eaten by them, sure but I would worry more about the warmer months.  I know around here people were using smallies as bait as you can keep them under 14" and through some loophole they were permitted to do so.
 

[Bluebasser86]

Flatheads eat next to nothing during the winter months. Lots of video evidence of baits bouncing through large winter congregations, even hitting them in the face/mouth and they don't even flinch. When they do eat, it's normally something small. I'd be shocked if they're preying on the smallmouth at all until the water warms up. 

[TnRiver46]

1 hour ago, Bluebasser86 said:

Flatheads eat next to nothing during the winter months. Lots of video evidence of baits bouncing through large winter congregations, even hitting them in the face/mouth and they don't even flinch. When they do eat, it's normally something small. I'd be shocked if they're preying on the smallmouth at all until the water warms up. 

I’m glad you confirmed that, was beginning to think nobody believed me haha

[Bluebasser86]

8 hours ago, flyfisher said:

 I know around here people were using smallies as bait as you can keep them under 14" and through some loophole they were permitted to do so.

They're fair game for bait here also, anything is really. Just has to be keeper sized and count towards your daily limit of that species of fish. Most of our smallmouth lakes have an 18" minimum length limit though, so I doubt many are being used as live bait. Many largemouth lakes have slots that allow keeping fish under 12", and bass are pretty popular bait fish on some of those lakes. 

[Standard]

At least the opposite happens, buddy caught a decent sized smallie that puked up a catfish this past summer.

[drakesndrum]

Caught one yesterday, roughly 16", that was missing scales on both sides but otherwise healthy.  Looked like a flathead hit it at some point recently.  Water temp was 46.6 at take out.