Super User FishTank Posted January 24 Super User Share Posted January 24 7 minutes ago, T-Billy said: This is how I like to test my braid. Regular ol single palomar works just fine for me. Forget the knot..... that's a nice fish. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User WRB Posted January 24 Super User Share Posted January 24 Before retiring 5 years ago the company had a lab that I could use during lunch to tensile test using a Instron machine, very accurate. The Instron recorded elongation (stretch) yield ( starting to stretch) and break strength. The factor the impacts line strength more then anything else is rate of pulling force. For example setting the rate+of force at .25” per second the data is very different from 2” per second. The slower rate tends to cause line breaking at the knot or mandrel. Faster rate the line tends to break away from the knot or mandrel Testing mono/Copolymer lines strength is alway related to diameter not labeled strength. Line with the same diameter varied very little between premium mfr’s, tested wet or dry. Elongation varies more then break strength and knot strength dependent on not flattening the line tying the knot. Fluorocarbon line varies between mfr’s with Seaguar and Sunline being very consistent breaking close to labeled strength and same diameter, Sunline Shooter FC having slightly higher knot strength, close to 80% vs 75% for all other types using Palomar, Trilene, Improved clinch and SD jam knots. Palomar having widest variances if not tied carefully or twisting the loop when tightening. I didn’t test braid because rarely used it other then 65# Fins PRC as filler line tuna fishing and straight without leader at the Delta and Clear Lake heavy cover presentations. I didn’t keep the data because it was for my information choosing line and knots. Tom PS, the strongest FC line tested per diameter was Toray Bass Hard (Blue) @ $35/85 yards in 2015, Shooter was $35/300 meters. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User T-Billy Posted January 24 Super User Share Posted January 24 1 hour ago, stratos4me said: Great! When can I come see you for my test?? March/April and November/December are prime time for the Esox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User dodgeguy Posted January 24 Super User Share Posted January 24 2 hours ago, T-Billy said: This is how I like to test my braid. Regular ol single palomar works just fine for me. You da man !!! Palomar is it. And they said braid stinks with toothy critters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User T-Billy Posted January 24 Super User Share Posted January 24 23 minutes ago, dodgeguy said: You da man !!! Palomar is it. And they said braid stinks with toothy critters. They'll bite right through braid, but they ain't biting through those A-Rig wires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek1 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 I just tie the improved clinch knot. My father thought me to tie it when I was a kid. I don’t think I have ever had a problem with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User dodgeguy Posted January 25 Super User Share Posted January 25 34 minutes ago, T-Billy said: They'll bite right through braid, but they ain't biting through those A-Rig wires. Maybe I've been lucky but the ones I've caught only had the bait in the lips and couldn't break the line. But they could bite your fingers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek1 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 3 hours ago, T-Billy said: This is how I like to test my braid. Regular ol single palomar works just fine for me. That thing is a friggin monster dude. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User T-Billy Posted January 25 Super User Share Posted January 25 4 minutes ago, Derek1 said: That thing is a friggin monster dude. That one was 43", but my goodness it had some girth. Between egg development and feeding on huge schools of gizzard shad, some of the females I caught last fall were absolutely obese. Back On Topic: I was throwing that A-Rig on either 50# 832, or 40# Fins Infinity, regular palomar knot, drags cranked down tight. Zero issues. The palomar has always been a solid knot for me with every type of braid I've tried. It's a simple knot that has consistently proven to be plenty strong. Both those braids have been very good for me as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User dodgeguy Posted January 25 Super User Share Posted January 25 2 minutes ago, T-Billy said: That one was 43", but my goodness it had some girth. Between egg development and feeding on huge schools of gizzard shad, some of the females I caught last fall were absolutely obese. Back On Topic: I was throwing that A-Rig on either 50# 832, or 40# Fins Infinity, regular palomar knot, drags cranked down tight. Zero issues. The palomar has always been a solid knot for me with every type of braid I've tried. It's a simple knot that has consistently proven to be plenty strong. Both those braids have been very good for me as well. I've always used a Palomar and have had no issues even when I don't glue it. I really only glue it to keep the tag end from fraying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratos4me Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 On 1/23/2023 at 4:57 AM, Deleted account said: Sounds like an issue with the methodology, most braids over test by quite a bit. If I had to guess, I would say the loops had something to do with it, but without seeing it, could be a bunch of things. You nailed it! Even though the line wasn't breaking at the knot, somehow the surgeon's loop was the culprit. I have no idea why. Maybe there is a physicist here who could explain because it makes no sense to me. On 1/24/2023 at 4:57 PM, dodgeguy said: I've always used a Palomar and have had no issues even when I don't glue it. I really only glue it to keep the tag end from fraying. Do you think it matters if the tag end frays? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1712 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Tested 30lb Berkley Fireline, San Diego jam knot, up in the sticks......Passed. Brian. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Global Moderator TnRiver46 Posted February 6 Global Moderator Share Posted February 6 18 minutes ago, stratos4me said: You nailed it! Even though the line wasn't breaking at the knot, somehow the surgeon's loop was the culprit. I have no idea why. Maybe there is a physicist here who could explain because it makes no sense to me. Do you think it matters if the tag end frays? There is a zero percent chance a physicist can help you with bass fishing unless of course you know a physicist that quit fishing and gave you a bass boat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User Deleted account Posted February 6 Super User Share Posted February 6 18 minutes ago, stratos4me said: You nailed it! Even though the line wasn't breaking at the knot, somehow the surgeon's loop was the culprit. I have no idea why. Maybe there is a physicist here who could explain because it makes no sense to me. It was breaking at the knot, it just appears it wasn't. When you tie a loop knot portion of the knot is at the tag, and the other portion is roughly twice the distance away from the tag as the size of the measured double line formed by the loop. 10 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said: There is a zero percent chance a physicist can help you with bass fishing Maybe, but seeing how he knows some math, he'd be able to tell you that statement can't be 100% correct... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Global Moderator TnRiver46 Posted February 6 Global Moderator Share Posted February 6 9 minutes ago, Deleted account said: It was breaking at the knot, it just appears it wasn't. When you tie a loop knot portion of the knot is at the tag, and the other portion is roughly twice the distance away from the tag as the size of the measured double line formed by the loop. Maybe, but seeing how he knows some math, he'd be able to tell you that statement can't be 100% correct... I’m 95% confident the true mean lies between a snowball in hades and a lead balloon 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User Dwight Hottle Posted February 6 Super User Share Posted February 6 I took some Sufix performance braid down to IGFA facility in Dania Beach for testing. The 10lb braid broke consistently at 17lbs for 7 out of 10 tries. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User dodgeguy Posted February 7 Super User Share Posted February 7 4 hours ago, stratos4me said: You nailed it! Even though the line wasn't breaking at the knot, somehow the surgeon's loop was the culprit. I have no idea why. Maybe there is a physicist here who could explain because it makes no sense to me. Do you think it matters if the tag end frays? Don't know but I'm anal about it. My buddy never glues his and has no issues. In my head a frayed tag end looks like a tiny bit of weed and I never catch fish with a lure if it has weed on it. I completely loose all confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratos4me Posted February 7 Author Share Posted February 7 8 hours ago, TnRiver46 said: There is a zero percent chance a physicist can help you with bass fishing unless of course you know a physicist that quit fishing and gave you a bass boat Successfully *** has everything to do with physics. 8 hours ago, Deleted account said: It was breaking at the knot, it just appears it wasn't. When you tie a loop knot portion of the knot is at the tag, and the other portion is roughly twice the distance away from the tag as the size of the measured double line formed by the loop. I think you nailed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User Deleted account Posted February 7 Super User Share Posted February 7 My grandmother used to say "más sabe el diablo por viejo que por diablo"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User ChrisD46 Posted February 7 Super User Share Posted February 7 One of the challenges of using braid is "shock" or slack braid suddenly pulling very tight - no line stretch causes line snapping , so a loose drag is crucial . Otherwise most braid is 2.5X higher rated strength shown on the spool . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User Deleted account Posted February 7 Super User Share Posted February 7 2 hours ago, ChrisD46 said: One of the challenges of using braid is "shock" or slack braid suddenly pulling very tight - no line stretch causes line snapping , so a loose drag is crucial . Otherwise most braid is 2.5X higher rated strength shown on the spool . If only we had a say on how much force is applied at one end or the ability to use a softer slower rod... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User ChrisD46 Posted February 8 Super User Share Posted February 8 21 hours ago, Deleted account said: If only we had a say on how much force is applied at one end or the ability to use a softer slower rod... Very true ! My slower more moderate action rods are reserved for braid use . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratos4me Posted February 10 Author Share Posted February 10 On 2/7/2023 at 3:22 AM, Deleted account said: My grandmother used to say "más sabe el diablo por viejo que por diablo"... Idioms in foreign languages are always interesting. On 2/7/2023 at 7:37 AM, Deleted account said: If only we had a say on how much force is applied at one end or the ability to use a softer slower rod... Adrenaline is the enemy. Even the very best sticks occasionally fall victim to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User Deleted account Posted February 10 Super User Share Posted February 10 9 hours ago, stratos4me said: Adrenaline is the enemy. Even the very best sticks occasionally fall victim to it. Agreed, it's about muscle memory and what I like to call William Tell practice, you can't set the apple on a stand, you have to practice with it on the kid's head. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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