Super User GreenPig Posted November 24, 2019 Super User Posted November 24, 2019 Always carry IWB my 9mm Shield unless I'm headed to the woods or into town then it's my Glock 20 10mm OWB. Quote
Super User Bankbeater Posted November 27, 2019 Super User Posted November 27, 2019 I don't, but a number of my friends do. Quote
DanielG Posted November 27, 2019 Posted November 27, 2019 In 65 years I've never come close to needing one. I've never come close to needing a fist. Come to think about it, I've never had a heated argument with anyone I didn't know. I think I'll take my chances. Most people who carry, I ask, "how many times have you needed it". The answer has always been "never". I ask, "how many time have you come close to needing it". The answer so far has always been "never". I ask, "why do you have it?" The answer is always, "you never know". Maybe it's where I live. Maybe it's luck. I just don't get it. And on the water, it seems like the least place around here. 1 1 Quote
Super User Bird Posted November 28, 2019 Super User Posted November 28, 2019 I carry everywhere legally. Quote
Super User slonezp Posted December 7, 2019 Super User Posted December 7, 2019 Just got a pocket holster for my LCP. Should go well with wearing shorts on the boat. Quote
Super User NHBull Posted December 7, 2019 Super User Posted December 7, 2019 On 11/27/2019 at 8:01 AM, DanielG said: In 65 years I've never come close to needing one. I've never come close to needing a fist. Come to think about it, I've never had a heated argument with anyone I didn't know. I think I'll take my chances. Most people who carry, I ask, "how many times have you needed it". The answer has always been "never". I ask, "how many time have you come close to needing it". The answer so far has always been "never". I ask, "why do you have it?" The answer is always, "you never know". Maybe it's where I live. Maybe it's luck. I just don't get it. And on the water, it seems like the least place around here. I always carry so it is with me when I get to my boat, but when I fish it goes in my bag. That said, your right.....Most will never have to pull it, but you don't carry for the 99% of the time, it's the 1%. My son's a State cop and has had to draw on a handful of times.....and every time there were ordinary citizens in the proximity. Quote
DanielG Posted December 7, 2019 Posted December 7, 2019 6 hours ago, NHBull said: I always carry so it is with me when I get to my boat, but when I fish it goes in my bag. That said, your right.....Most will never have to pull it, but you don't carry for the 99% of the time, it's the 1%. My son's a State cop and has had to draw on a handful of times.....and every time there were ordinary citizens in the proximity. Ya police would have a higher chance of having to use a gun for sure. But according to statistics, the need for one by the general public rivals being hit by lightning or winning the lottery. A lot less than 1%. Then again it can happen I guess. Quote
Super User Dwight Hottle Posted December 8, 2019 Super User Posted December 8, 2019 In the state of Florida any one can carry when fishing. 1 Quote
Hewhospeaksmuchbull Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 On 12/7/2019 at 3:27 PM, DanielG said: Ya police would have a higher chance of having to use a gun for sure. But according to statistics, the need for one by the general public rivals being hit by lightning or winning the lottery. A lot less than 1%. Then again it can happen I guess. And it has I carry so I will not be a statistic, I fish from the bank and some pretty sketchy people stop by now and then. Just last night a crazy dude stopped by, He'd been chased out of a camp ground near by. Kept going on about checking his perimeter and how the those that forced him out were going to get their due. As I was packing up to get away from this guy, I became another one of his enemies. I guess he didn't like that I wasn't going to listen to his B.S. I got out of there without having to resort to any violence or even the threat of it. But if the situation did go further south I would have been in a position to defend myself. Family and some friends have suggested that I fish elsewhere, the Second amendment ensures that I do not have to limit my choices. Period. My Springfield tactile .45 goes with me everywhere, As does my 74 lbs pit bull/Boxer mix Buddy. God help em if the dog has to act, and hell can welcome them if its me. 1 1 Quote
DanielG Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 3 hours ago, Hewhospeaksmuchbull said: And it has I carry so I will not be a statistic, I fish from the bank and some pretty sketchy people stop by now and then. Just last night a crazy dude stopped by, He'd been chased out of a camp ground near by. Kept going on about checking his perimeter and how the those that forced him out were going to get their due. As I was packing up to get away from this guy, I became another one of his enemies. I guess he didn't like that I wasn't going to listen to his B.S. I got out of there without having to resort to any violence or even the threat of it. But if the situation did go further south I would have been in a position to defend myself. Family and some friends have suggested that I fish elsewhere, the Second amendment ensures that I do not have to limit my choices. Period. My Springfield tactile .45 goes with me everywhere, As does my 74 lbs pit bull/Boxer mix Buddy. God help em if the dog has to act, and hell can welcome them if its me. Why is it so many gun owners tell me they have run ins or near run ins with people and seem ready for a fight if need be. And when I say 'ready for a fight' it's not just I'll fight if I have to, but I'm eager if given the opportunity. Almost wishing for it. Other people I know don't talk this way. I knew one guy who would put himself in the middle of a conflict between two other people just in case it would escalate and he'd get a chance to act legally. He eventually ended up getting his ass kicked but it could have gone the other way too. Quote
Hewhospeaksmuchbull Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 2 hours ago, DanielG said: Why is it so many gun owners tell me they have run ins or near run ins with people and seem ready for a fight if need be. And when I say 'ready for a fight' it's not just I'll fight if I have to, but I'm eager if given the opportunity. Almost wishing for it. Other people I know don't talk this way. I knew one guy who would put himself in the middle of a conflict between two other people just in case it would escalate and he'd get a chance to act legally. He eventually ended up getting his ass kicked but it could have gone the other way too. I dont know, Bud. I know plenty of people who are itching for a fight, like the guy from last night. Maybe compensation, Raging hormones, just an *sshole, mental health issues, bullied at some point and want to make things right, too many Rambo films which plays into the big one someone who thinks he or she is something that they are not, Like the one guy you knew. None of which have anything to do with a Gun. My Gun is a deputy that does not take five minutes to act. And that is reassuring when I'm out in the sticks. Quote
newriverfisherman1953 Posted December 12, 2019 Posted December 12, 2019 I’ve never had a serious run in with anyone either but I have had serious run ins with snakes and such. I’m not anxious to pull the trigger on anything or anyone. Quote
riverbasser Posted December 13, 2019 Posted December 13, 2019 On 12/9/2019 at 1:35 PM, DanielG said: Why is it so many gun owners tell me they have run ins or near run ins with people and seem ready for a fight if need be. And when I say 'ready for a fight' it's not just I'll fight if I have to, but I'm eager if given the opportunity. Almost wishing for it. Other people I know don't talk this way. I knew one guy who would put himself in the middle of a conflict between two other people just in case it would escalate and he'd get a chance to act legally. He eventually ended up getting his ass kicked but it could have gone the other way too. I've met plenty of people like this as well. Cant explain it either other then they have a warped view of reality and their ability. Without training in a high stress situation the majority of gun owners would likely not even draw fast enough to protect themselves. Let alone aim and shoot. for example the FBI says 21ft is the minimum distance to react to a threat with a knife or other weapon. And this is with extensive training. The knife guy still wins. I own a few pistols and I enjoy shooting them. I carry in my truck and the boat if I remember. Mainly started doing this after my son was born. Not sure exactly why other then I feel like i have more ways to protect him and my wife. Hope i never have too Quote
DanielG Posted December 13, 2019 Posted December 13, 2019 56 minutes ago, riverbasser said: I've met plenty of people like this as well. Cant explain it either other then they have a warped view of reality and their ability. Without training in a high stress situation the majority of gun owners would likely not even draw fast enough to protect themselves. Let alone aim and shoot. for example the FBI says 21ft is the minimum distance to react to a threat with a knife or other weapon. And this is with extensive training. The knife guy still wins. I own a few pistols and I enjoy shooting them. I carry in my truck and the boat if I remember. Mainly started doing this after my son was born. Not sure exactly why other then I feel like i have more ways to protect him and my wife. Hope i never have too Interesting statistics. Of the huge number of people killed in the US by guns each year only 0.9% are killed by people defending themselves. That's not much use of a gun for self defense. The statistics I read said that the people who carry a gun have almost not chance of using it in self defense usually because of the circumstances of the offense. They will get shot or robbed or die with the gun holstered. 1 Quote
riverbasser Posted December 13, 2019 Posted December 13, 2019 11 minutes ago, DanielG said: Interesting statistics. Of the huge number of people killed in the US by guns each year only 0.9% are killed by people defending themselves. That's not much use of a gun for self defense. The statistics I read said that the people who carry a gun have almost not chance of using it in self defense usually because of the circumstances of the offense. They will get shot or robbed or die with the gun holstered. I believe that is probably true. I cant say its reason enough for people not to cary a weapon for personal protection though. I do think anyone who carries should put ample time in training and safety which is rarely the case. Myself included. I'm familiar with a gun but I have no idea how I will react in a life or death situation. Quote
Super User NHBull Posted December 14, 2019 Super User Posted December 14, 2019 22 hours ago, DanielG said: Interesting statistics. Of the huge number of people killed in the US by guns each year only 0.9% are killed by people defending themselves. That's not much use of a gun for self defense. The statistics I read said that the people who carry a gun have almost not chance of using it in self defense usually because of the circumstances of the offense. They will get shot or robbed or die with the gun holstered. That static doesn't mention how many time a person with a gun has saved others or where the presence of a gun has saved others. The FBI will publish last year's numbers mid January. When you remove gang shootings. The "good guy" numbers are statistically significant. 3 Quote
DanielG Posted December 14, 2019 Posted December 14, 2019 11 hours ago, NHBull said: That static doesn't mention how many time a person with a gun has saved others or where the presence of a gun has saved others. The FBI will publish last year's numbers mid January. When you remove gang shootings. The "good guy" numbers are statistically significant. Actually two things here. One is that I worded it wrong. Secondly is that I think your comment is anecdotal. Here is the statement that resulted from and extensive harvard injury control research study. Victims use guns in less than 1% of contact crimes, and women never use guns to protect themselves against sexual assault (in more than 300 cases). Victims using a gun were no less likely to be injured after taking protective action than victims using other forms of protective action. Compared to other protective actions, the National Crime Victimization Surveys provide little evidence that self-defense gun use is uniquely beneficial in reducing the likelihood of injury or property loss. And the link to it Quote
Super User A-Jay Posted December 14, 2019 Super User Posted December 14, 2019 On 12/12/2019 at 11:12 PM, DanielG said: Interesting statistics. Of the huge number of people killed in the US by guns each year only 0.9% are killed by people defending themselves. That's not much use of a gun for self defense. The statistics I read said that the people who carry a gun have almost not chance of using it in self defense usually because of the circumstances of the offense. They will get shot or robbed or die with the gun holstered. Statistics are always driven by an objective - one way or the other. However, this brings the topic of open carry to mind. Are criminals looking for victims, more or less apt to choose an obviously armed human over one who is not ? And does the above 'statistic' include all those 'armed victims', who were exercising their right to open carry? Can't imaging there were very many. A-Jay 2 Quote
Super User slonezp Posted December 22, 2019 Super User Posted December 22, 2019 On 12/12/2019 at 10:12 PM, DanielG said: Interesting statistics. Of the huge number of people killed in the US by guns each year only 0.9% are killed by people defending themselves. That's not much use of a gun for self defense. The statistics I read said that the people who carry a gun have almost not chance of using it in self defense usually because of the circumstances of the offense. They will get shot or robbed or die with the gun holstered. The huge number of people being shot killed in the US are being slaughtered by people they know or, as a direct result of some type of criminal activity they are involved with. @A-Jay touched on criminals looking for victims. Looking for easy targets. So many people walk and drive around unaware of the things that are going on outside their happy space. That makes for easy targets. The first thing taught in a ccw firearms training/safety course is to avoid/remove yourself from the situation. If that's not an option, then remove the threat. I'm always people watching. I've been doing it my entire life. If I get a funny feeling about something I see, I will avoid it. I have spent years working in some of the crappiest neighborhoods in Chicago. Knowing HOW to act in the crappy neighborhoods is key to avoid violent confrontation. That is something that cannot be taught. It must be learned. In the early 90's I was robbed twice at gunpoint. I managed a quicklube in Chicago and was robbed at 2 different stores. Being on the wrong side of the barrel is a horrible feeling. Had my coked out stripper neighbor barge into my apartment attack and threaten to kill my wife. I had a gun in the apartment but it was not on my person. I threw her down the stairs before calling the police. I moved to the suburbs 20 years ago and stopped working in Chicago 3 years ago. Now, about the worst I have to deal with, in the neighborhoods I work and frequent, is drug addicts. Most are harmless, but you never know. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. 8 Quote
DanielG Posted December 22, 2019 Posted December 22, 2019 25 minutes ago, slonezp said: The huge number of people being shot killed in the US are being slaughtered by people they know or, as a direct result of some type of criminal activity they are involved with. @A-Jay touched on criminals looking for victims. Looking for easy targets. So many people walk and drive around unaware of the things that are going on outside their happy space. That makes for easy targets. The first thing taught in a ccw firearms training/safety course is to avoid/remove yourself from the situation. If that's not an option, then remove the threat. I'm always people watching. I've been doing it my entire life. If I get a funny feeling about something I see, I will avoid it. I have spent years working in some of the crappiest neighborhoods in Chicago. Knowing HOW to act in the crappy neighborhoods is key to avoid violent confrontation. That is something that cannot be taught. It must be learned. In the early 90's I was robbed twice at gunpoint. I managed a quicklube in Chicago and was robbed at 2 different stores. Being on the wrong side of the barrel is a horrible feeling. Had my coked out stripper neighbor barge into my apartment attack and threaten to kill my wife. I had a gun in the apartment but it was not on my person. I threw her down the stairs before calling the police. I moved to the suburbs 20 years ago and stopped working in Chicago 3 years ago. Now, about the worst I have to deal with, in the neighborhoods I work and frequent, is drug addicts. Most are harmless, but you never know. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Well, your experiences are definitely more than mine. Maybe it's where I live. In my life I've never come across any of the stuff you've had to experience. I once had a drunk guy throw up on my shoe when I was in line for a concert. But then he passed out, so not much danger. But, that's it. Quote
Super User A-Jay Posted December 22, 2019 Super User Posted December 22, 2019 25 minutes ago, slonezp said: The huge number of people being shot killed in the US are being slaughtered by people they know or, as a direct result of some type of criminal activity they are involved with. @A-Jay touched on criminals looking for victims. Looking for easy targets. So many people walk and drive around unaware of the things that are going on outside their happy space. That makes for easy targets. The first thing taught in a ccw firearms training/safety course is to avoid/remove yourself from the situation. If that's not an option, then remove the threat. I'm always people watching. I've been doing it my entire life. If I get a funny feeling about something I see, I will avoid it. I have spent years working in some of the crappiest neighborhoods in Chicago. Knowing HOW to act in the crappy neighborhoods is key to avoid violent confrontation. That is something that cannot be taught. It must be learned. In the early 90's I was robbed twice at gunpoint. I managed a quicklube in Chicago and was robbed at 2 different stores. Being on the wrong side of the barrel is a horrible feeling. Had my coked out stripper neighbor barge into my apartment attack and threaten to kill my wife. I had a gun in the apartment but it was not on my person. I threw her down the stairs before calling the police. I moved to the suburbs 20 years ago and stopped working in Chicago 3 years ago. Now, about the worst I have to deal with, in the neighborhoods I work and frequent, is drug addicts. Most are harmless, but you never know. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have Most all of that makes me shake my head. Glad to know you were OK. Situational awareness os a valueable skill. While my LEO experience occurred in an unusal environment I did come to learn that there is a difference between actual criminals, and some jamoke hopped up on smack with a gun. 'Skilled' crimanals take less chances and while still pose a threat, drug boy is a ticking time bomb; has no plan and no clue what he's doing or up against. This seems so much more of what's posing the most threat. Really glad that such a large percentage of the law abiding citizens of this and surrounding counties carry a gun, concealed and not. A-Jay 5 Quote
Super User slonezp Posted December 22, 2019 Super User Posted December 22, 2019 1 hour ago, DanielG said: Well, your experiences are definitely more than mine. Maybe it's where I live. In my life I've never come across any of the stuff you've had to experience. I once had a drunk guy throw up on my shoe when I was in line for a concert. But then he passed out, so not much danger. But, that's it. I've got all sorts of stories about the things I have seen and gone thru living and working in a major metropolitan area. Fortunately in my 50 years on this earth, I have made it thru every situation without having to brandish a weapon. I'm hoping to make it thru the next 50 years the same. 2 Quote
Super User flyfisher Posted December 22, 2019 Super User Posted December 22, 2019 On 12/14/2019 at 9:07 AM, A-Jay said: Statistics are always driven by an objective - one way or the other. However, this brings the topic of open carry to mind. Are criminals looking for victims, more or less apt to choose an obviously armed human over one who is not ? And does the above 'statistic' include all those 'armed victims', who were exercising their right to open carry? Can't imaging there were very many. A-Jay Not at all the case. Statistics are just that, statistics or numbers. What you are referring to is the analysis of said statistics which is an entirely different thing than statistics. On 12/14/2019 at 9:07 AM, A-Jay said: Statistics are always driven by an objective - one way or the other. However, this brings the topic of open carry to mind. Are criminals looking for victims, more or less apt to choose an obviously armed human over one who is not ? And does the above 'statistic' include all those 'armed victims', who were exercising their right to open carry? Can't imaging there were very many. A-Jay Not at all the case. Statistics are just that, statistics or numbers. What you are referring to is the analysis of said statistics which is an entirely different thing than statistics. On 12/14/2019 at 9:07 AM, A-Jay said: Statistics are always driven by an objective - one way or the other. However, this brings the topic of open carry to mind. Are criminals looking for victims, more or less apt to choose an obviously armed human over one who is not ? And does the above 'statistic' include all those 'armed victims', who were exercising their right to open carry? Can't imaging there were very many. A-Jay Not at all the case. Statistics are just that, statistics or numbers. What you are referring to is the analysis of said statistics which is an entirely different thing than statistics. Quote
Super User A-Jay Posted December 22, 2019 Super User Posted December 22, 2019 15 minutes ago, flyfisher said: Not at all the case. Statistics are just that, statistics or numbers. What you are referring to is the analysis of said statistics which is an entirely different thing than statistics. X3 The very definition of the word makes my point. Also in this particular case, your keen powers of telepathy, have failed you. A-Jay 1 Quote
Super User NorcalBassin Posted December 23, 2019 Super User Posted December 23, 2019 3 hours ago, flyfisher said: Not at all the case. Statistics are just that, statistics or numbers. What you are referring to is the analysis of said statistics which is an entirely different thing than statistics. Not at all the case. Statistics are just that, statistics or numbers. What you are referring to is the analysis of said statistics which is an entirely different thing than statistics. Not at all the case. Statistics are just that, statistics or numbers. What you are referring to is the analysis of said statistics which is an entirely different thing than statistics. It's like Dorothy clicking her heels! Not looking to disagree with you too much, but a relevant example of the statistics (not analysis) being driven by an objective is the number of school shootings used by anti-gun groups such as everytown. We can all agree school shootings are horrific and something that should never happen, but when someone or a group with an agenda counts every time a firearm is discharged in or at a building, on campus, or in/around the parking lot of a campus as a school shooting regardless of whether or not anyone was injured/threatened or it even occurred while students were present it skews the statistics in an attempt to meet their objective. 2 Quote
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