5 minutes ago, ironbjorn said:

I've never seen this topic go well or as intended on any forum or social media. Everyone is so different, with different expectations and experiences, and rarely do any two people (let alone huge groups) operate with the same level of comprehension. Add to that the natural communication gap of speaking to strangers online (a vast majority of human communication is wordless), and we end up here.

 

 

Indeed. 

1 minute ago, Yuddzy said:

The only productive direction for this thread to go would be to produce a detailed list of features typically found in the upper end reels mentioned that are not found in the lower end reels so we can make some sort of objective analysis as to whether or not the price gap is warranted. 

 

Now we talkin!! Ha. 

I don't think it's really worth that, but I like where your head is at. 

You can get in the weeds pretty fast. Obscure internal design differences, materials, etc. It's a fun thought experiment, but I doubt the topic warrants that much effort. 

 

I honestly think I'm starting to realize that (in my case) inexpensive "value" reels make sense, and very high end reels make sense. I haven't been able to land on that middle ground "sweet spot" yet. Knowing myself, it wouldn't surprise me if I end up with a boat full of half Zillions and half $60 Walmart Lews. 

Good topic because imo noisy reels caused by gears on the retrieve take away your focus and lure feel. 

Paying any price and receiving a reel that you feel drive train feedback vibrations is extremely annoying and good reason to be disappointed.

I am a line feeler and smooth reels are essential to my fishing experience.

I haven’t experienced smooth quite drive trains to be a price factor, weight is. Weight drives manufactures to use gear technology that uses aluminum in lieu of self lubricating brass. Aluminum will never be a smooth as brass everything being equal 

Frame materials are also sacrificed for saving weight, composites aren’t as rigid as metal but 40% lighter then aluminum. Keeping the drive train aligned using the thinnest lightest frame and side plates drives up cost with higher cost precision components. 

If budget is a driver use aluminum framed reels with brass gears. If budget isn’t a concern then light weight precision reels made by good craftsmen from a Japan should be considered.

Tom 

21 minutes ago, AmmoGuy said:

 

Indeed. 

 

Now we talkin!! Ha. 

I don't think it's really worth that, but I like where your head is at. 

You can get in the weeds pretty fast. Obscure internal design differences, materials, etc. It's a fun thought experiment, but I doubt the topic warrants that much effort. 

 

I honestly think I'm starting to realize that (in my case) inexpensive "value" reels make sense, and very high end reels make sense. I haven't been able to land on that middle ground "sweet spot" yet. Knowing myself, it wouldn't surprise me if I end up with a boat full of half Zillions and half $60 Walmart Lews. 

Maybe what you were looking for is someone that had a good idea of where the point of “diminishing returns” starts or stops when it comes to pricing . I sure don’t know but I would bet some folks on here do. 

They all look shiny and feel smooth in the store. In store experience is vastly different than on the water. 

Something I look for in a new rod and reel is weight savings and comfort, makes a tremendous difference when you fish a lot.

 

We all define " expensive " differently.

Recently spent $329 on Lew's custom Pro spinning reel and paired it with a Cashion rod.

 

The wife was standing beside me when it was rung up. She was blown away that I spent that much on a combo.

When we got home I invited her to get on Bass Resources.......she now calls me frugal, thankyou ?

 

It's your money, spend it the way you want to.

5 minutes ago, Bird said:

They all look shiny and feel smooth in the store. In store experience is vastly different than on the water. 

Something I look for in a new rod and reel is weight savings and comfort, makes a tremendous difference when you fish a lot.

 

We all define " expensive " differently.

Recently spent $329 on Lew's custom Pro spinning reel and paired it with a Cashion rod.

 

The wife was standing beside me when it was rung up. She was blown away that I spent that much on a combo.

When we got home I invited her to get on Bass Resources.......she now calls me frugal, thankyou ?

 

It's your money, spend it the way you want to.

Yes sir! I have to spend that much on a couples weekend getaway next month, thusly I may be fishing with the Mountain Dew bottle rod/reel combo 

12 minutes ago, WRB said:

Good topic because imo noisy reels caused by gears on the retrieve take away your focus and lure feel. 

Paying any price and receiving a reel that you feel drive train feedback vibrations is extremely annoying and good reason to be disappointed.

I am a line feeler and smooth reels are essential to my fishing experience.

I haven’t experienced smooth quite drive trains to be a price factor, weight is. Weight drives manufactures to use gear technology that uses aluminum in lieu of self lubricating brass. Aluminum will never be a smooth as brass everything being equal 

Frame materials are also sacrificed for saving weight, composites aren’t as rigid as metal but 40% lighter then aluminum. Keeping the drive train aligned using the thinnest lightest frame and side plates drives up cost with higher cost precision components. 

If budget is a driver use aluminum framed reels with brass gears. If budget isn’t a concern then light weight precision reels made by good craftsmen from a Japan should be considered.

Tom 

 

Good post. 

I agree that drive train noise/vibrations take away from the fishing experience in many cases. And I'd also agree that it seems to come down to mechanical design and materials more than price sometimes. There are cheap reels that have a tendency to feel smooth, and more expensive reels that can be "geary".... Due to their design. 

The closest datapoint I cam come up with is my BB-25SW after 20 hard years. 

I've never experienced "geary" in a reel, but I do recognize there some reels made to last only as long as you tinker with them in the store. 

@TnRiver46 's Mountain Dew bottle will never be geary, but line twist is something else. 

Personally , I cant justify purchasing a fleet of expensive reels . 

4 hours ago, PhishLI said:

But this is @AmmoGuy's main complaint with a percentage of his reels up to $250, so that's why it was addressed. Purchasing reels up to that price point has been hit or miss for him.

 

Yes I understand that. Some of my mid range reels, not many, got crappy unexpectedly soon. What I tried to say is, that's acceptable, as those extra money is not just paying for the quality. A lot of them goes to the design, as you're paying for the unique designs that other reels don't have. 

 

When paying top money for a reel, people expect to have the best experience on every level. But the OP is right - from manufacturing perspective, high end reels aren't that much different than low end ones. But high end reels have way more features. You can't put an exact price on how much the design effort behind a T-wing or a MGL spool is worth. You might not like them, or the extra money they charge for them, but you're paying for them when buying a reel. It's a package deal.

 

 I value the smoothness and durability of a reel just as everyone, and scorn some of the useless "features" they push so hard for, but some of them features really work. If you truly don't care about all those features and original ideas, then yes, low end quality reels definitely have the best value. 

2 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

The closest datapoint I cam come up with is my BB-25SW after 20 hard years. 

I've never experienced "geary" in a reel, but I do recognize there some reels made to last only as long as you tinker with them in the store. 

@TnRiver46 's Mountain Dew bottle will never be geary, but line twist is something else. 

I knew you would have some data, I figure you’ve tried every reel ever made 

 

 

every time I have a reel feel “geary” I take it apart and usually find a rock in there. Not sure how that happens but it does. If it still feels funny after rock removal, I’m just stuck with it. I’ve got one spinning reel that sounds like an old squeaky wagon wheel but I still have to use it. It’s comical at times and annoying at other times 

not so, I pick and choose.  But I used to drive from San Antonio to Nashville on Mountain Dew and Mars bars. 

5 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

not so, I pick and choose.  But I used to drive from San Antonio to Nashville on Mountain Dew and Mars bars. 

A dentists dream 

I would say I own only one rod or reel in the "very high end" category and its a Calcutta I use for muskie fishing.  The only reason I have it is because I received a nice 40% discount on it from an employee who worked at Cabela's years ago and they were having a Family & Friends special in which they could allow others to use their employee discount.

 

I also would say that not a single one of my rod or reels is cheap or "low end" category either though.  I find that if I routinely do reel maintenance on them, they last a long time, which many of them have.  I recently bought a Shimano SLX bait casting reel this spring for 85 bucks and I have found it to be very smooth and light weight for the price I paid so far.

 

 

If you go to any reel companies website they will tell you what features their more expensive reels have that their cheaper reels don't have.  Then they explain why these features are better.    For example the Shimano Metanium has many advanced technologies such as the MicroModule gear system which is not in their cheaper reels. 

 

According to the website:

"The MicroModule Gear system creates a smooth retrieve by utilizing smaller teeth to increase the number of contact points between the drive gear and pinion gear.  Ultimately, this produces a more efficient gear train with less of a gear feel."

 

Smaller teeth sounds good to me but smaller than what?  I assume they are smaller than the gears in a Zebco 33 but who really knows.  The only thing we can know for certain in this life is that if you pay more for it,  it must be better .  It probably won't catch more fish but it has to be better.

I know nothing of tolerances, materials, or engineering.  But I have owned reels with at least ten different brand names on them.  The only ones from the OP price bucket that I recommend without reservation is from the Quantum Smoke PT family.  I like most of my other reels....loved some of them new....but none are as consistently smooth and trouble free after years of use.  I will give an honorable mention to an old Speed Spool that is sort of like new after a decade.  I'd trade any of my other reels for a well-maintained Smoke HPT.

1 hour ago, Yuddzy said:

a detailed list of features typically found in the upper end reels mentioned that are not found in the lower end reels

 

Guess my Calcuttas would be considered "lower" end?

@Tennessee Boy both Daiwa and Shimano are heading this way. 

The idea is you have more, finer gear teeth meshing at the same time.  This improves gear alignment, and increases the contact surface area, which reduces contact stress and wear. 

21 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

every time I have a reel feel “geary” I take it apart and usually find a rock in there. Not sure how that happens but it does.

I had a reel making all sorts of noise . I took it apart and found a long human hair all wrapped up inside . ?

40 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

Yes sir! I have to spend that much on a couples weekend getaway next month, thusly I may be fishing with the Mountain Dew bottle rod/reel combo 

I would suggest a Diet Mountain Dew bottle.  It provides the same performance but its lighter which increases sensitivity.

3 minutes ago, Catt said:

 

Guess my Calcuttas would be considered "lower" end?

That's where it gets really tricky I suppose. There's some simple reels that are built remarkably well in upper price ranges, despite not having all of the "advanced features" of reels typically in that price range. The Ambassadeur C3/C4 reels are a good example, they're around $130 if I remember right. Not many bells and whistles on those and a lower bearing count to boot as compared to a typical $130 reel. 

 

To answer your question, I would never consider the Calcutta to be lower end. I'm biased because I love simple, well made things rather than complex items. The Calcutta embodies that well, and will likely outlive many reels in it's price point if I had to guess. 

     I go down a bank with a strong wind at my back, making long bomber casts with no bites for an hour or so.  I keep backing off the breaks one click at a time marveling at how far my reel will cast.  Then I hear a big splash behind me, directly in to the wind at max casting distance.  I quickly turn and fire off a way over muscled, full body, far from smooth cast.  Result is the same whether the real is cheap mid priced or expensive.  I am buying new line.  Hopefully the line is inexpensive. 

33 minutes ago, newapti5 said:

When paying top money for a reel, people expect to have the best experience on every level. But the OP is right - from manufacturing perspective, high end reels aren't that much different than low end ones. But high end reels have way more features. You can't put an exact price on how much a design like a T-wing or a MGL spool is worth. You might not like them, or the extra money they charge for them, but you're paying for them when buying a reel. It's a package deal. If you truly don't care about all those features and original ideas, then yes, low end quality reels definitely have the best value.

 

Well, usually at some $ point, you do hit the "different" reels. 

In the Daiwa lineup, when you hit the FFS reels, you are actually paying for a better mechanical design. 

15 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

@Tennessee Boy both Daiwa and Shimano are heading this way. 

The idea is you have more, finer gear teeth meshing at the same time.  This improves gear alignment, and increases the contact surface area, which reduces contact stress and wear. 

Yeah but does Daiwa have SilentTune?    According to the Shimano website:

 

"By applying slight pressure to the bearing holding the spool,  SilentTune reduces the vibration of the bearing during high-speed rotation.  This improves the quietness while casting and the rise of the spool rotation becomes even smoother."

Much of this comes down to personal preference, and what you like in a reel. There's really lots of good ones out there, that will fit any budget.                                         I've heard and read all the arguments about certain brands and prices. I've heard so many guys say they hate Quantum. Not me. I have a Quantum Tour Grade reel that's been excellent. I say pick the reel that works best for you, and go catch some fish. That's what it's all about. And be happy.

23 minutes ago, Tennessee Boy said:

If you go to any reel companies website they will tell you what features their more expensive reels have that their cheaper reels don't have.  Then they explain why these features are better.    For example the Shimano Metanium has many advanced technologies such as the MicroModule gear system which is not in their cheaper reels. 

 

According to the website:

"The MicroModule Gear system creates a smooth retrieve by utilizing smaller teeth to increase the number of contact points between the drive gear and pinion gear.  Ultimately, this produces a more efficient gear train with less of a gear feel."

 

Smaller teeth sounds good to me but smaller than what?  I assume they are smaller than the gears in a Zebco 33 but who really knows.  The only thing we can know for certain in this life is that if you pay more for it,  it must be better .  It probably won't catch more fish but it has to be better.

 

You can get the MM Gears in a $179 Curado K. 

 

I had a Curado DC with MM gears come out of the box with very obvious drivetrain noise recently. You could feel the buzz of the gears in your palm hand. 

Ordered a replacement and side by side they were night and day in noise and "feel". The replacement has no perceptible drive train noise or feel out of the box. You have to put your ear to the side plate to even know their are gears inside. 

 

So that's my point. At $260, a Curado DC doesn't give a discerning buyer a predictably smooth drivetrain. So what did the MM gears actually accomplish? I'm sure Metaniums come much closer though. 

 

Like I said earlier, all individual reels will have their individual nuances, feels, and noises. It's part of anything mechanical. I'm just interested what series of reels, or what price point tend to give a more predictable level of refinement. I mean, You can blindly spend thousands of dollars on a Les Paul, and to the discerning customer you may get a good one, or may get a bad one. Just how it is sometimes. 

32 minutes ago, Choporoz said:

 The only ones from the OP price bucket that I recommend without reservation is from the Quantum Smoke PT family.  

 

Interesting. 

I wonder what about their design has lent itself to the predictable performance you've experienced?