Options?

[TOXIC]

Here in Virginia, my daughter is on a farm with a very robust deer population.  She is considering either doing a seasonal hunting lease or an “as you go” meaning every time you access the land type of fee.  Is this even reasonable or how would you regular hunters structure it? Land size is 50-60 acres mixed woods and pasture.  No food plots have been planted.  Surrounded by mega acreage horse farms.  She found a full skeleton which may have been a lost hunt, buck battle, or some other reason for it being deceased and she has seen some massive bucks in her fields.  
 

[casts_by_fly]

couple thoughts in random order:

 

- most hunters will prefer a longer term arrangement I think.  A pay by the day doesn't really work unless you're managing the property.  With an annual lease (or multi year lease), hunters will have the ability to maybe plan out food plots, do some light habitat work, maybe work with you on felling some trees, etc.  All depending on what you're okay with and agree to.

- A lease is a big commitment for you as the landowner.  It means someone (or a group) can come and go at basically all times of day through the year.  Keep that in mind.

- if you go the lease route, be sure to have a lawyer involved to protect you.  Figure out what's important to you for the property (like level of disturbance, permitted activities, etc).

- regardless of the permission route, decide what you want to happen on the property.  Are there too many deer and you want to thin the herd?  Is it a for-profit motive?  That will help decide the route to take.

- An easier route and one you could trial this year is to find some local hunters who might just want to hunt some untouched property.  I know if you were up here and I saw that I'd snap your wrist off to shake your hand.  Set a basic permission slip, maybe some rules that are important to you (see point 4 above), etc.  

 

My personal preference is always a handshake agreement for permission (written permission slip, a nice gift at Christmas, help with some chores as needed).  I don't like the idea of leases.  I understand them and why they exist though.  There is a finite amount of land and in some parts of the country they are almost mandatory given the number of hunters vs the land available.

 

Growing up we had a farm like that.  We hunted it for small game and deer, archery and rifle.  We'd go over for groundhogs in the summer.  We more or less had free reign to use it as we wanted.  A nice chat with the farmer a couple times a year, a tray of christmas cookies and some home canning, and following all of his rules meant we were able to do that for a long time.

[Tennessee Boy]

I have some land that I lease at a very favorable rate to someone I know and trust.   I don’t live on the land so we don’t get in each other’s way.   I also lease the farming rights to a farmer.  The hunter knows that the farmer’s needs take priority over his hunting rights.

 

A realtor told me once that she could put me in touch with a company that leases the hunting rights for properties that would accept all liability and would manage hunting the access by their hunters.   I didn’t pursue it.

[DaubsNU1]

^^ Wise words from @casts_by_fly ^^

 

That size, you might want to lease for bow hunting only this year and see how it goes. Ask around and see what leases are going for in your area.

 

Most deer hunters want to lock up a lease, and have exclusive permission so no one else is running around the property, messing things up, etc.

 

Yes, get an attorney involved. Lots of liability issues and potential to get sued.

 

Might look in to land management companies like @Tennessee Boy mentioned, but they will want a cut of the $$, and you lose control of who is on your land.

 

Most hunters would cherish a chance to lease land, and will take care of your property, make sure gates are shut, leave no trace behind, respect the land and game, etc. There are some turds out there who will take advantage of you and your land.

 

Probably best to have it in writing. Good luck!!

 

 

[TnRiver46]

I want that black dog! 

[Jig Man]

That is a pretty small number of acres for more than 1 or 2 hunters.

[gimruis]

I would probably hire a leasing company to do it to cover myself legally.

 

If you simply grant permission, make sure you are very clear about who can hunt it, when, and what type of weapons they can use.  There are hunters that are given permission but then show up with a couple friends too.  If you don't specifically tell them that they can only archery hunt, they might also hunt it via firearms too when that season is open.

 

I seek permission to pheasant and turkey hunt every year on multiple properties.  I am very specific about when I will be hunting, and whether it will be just me or someone else with me, and what my vehicle looks like, so they are not alarmed when they see a truck on their property.

 

Another thing, depending on the hunter and what is legal to harvest there, unless they are regularly taking anterless deer, they will not be making a dent in the deer population.  You need to regularly harvest does to start reducing the herd.  Shooting bucks really doesn't do anything to the population.

[TOXIC]

Thanks for the well informed reply’s.  She is just in the “thinking about it” stage right now.  A few clarifying points….I don’t think she wants food plots or tree clearing, as it stands, there are a lot of deer and no need to bring them in or clear shooting lanes.  Big consideration is that not only she, but also her neighbors have horses although a conscientious hunter would easily be able to work around that.  As you look at the arial pic I put up, her farm continues to the top where you see the buildings.  The farm to the left is 300+ acres and has 90 free roaming horses.  The farm to the right is 100+ acres and no livestock.  Her farm continues across the road to the north of her buildings with another 100 acres but there are very high dollar horse farms on all sides of it.  As a matter of fact there is a tract of 40 acres next to her property across the road that an old time owner who doesn’t live on the land went and rough planted some soybeans so he could get a deer nuisance permit.  He had 5 guys sitting on the road spotlighting and shooting deer at 10 pm one night.  Neighbors called the sheriff and made them pick up the downed deer and clear out.  That situation is ongoing.
 

 As for the dog.  You might want to reconsider.  She has 2 GSD Shutzhound trained and the brown one is a 1/2 malanois 1/2 cattle dog she uses for stock work.  The 2 Shepards are for protection when she hauls and on the farm. The female is in the pic above and the male is the one with brown legs. Let’s just say I don’t worry about her when she’s on the road.  ??

[casts_by_fly]

40 minutes ago, TOXIC said:

Thanks for the well informed reply’s.  She is just in the “thinking about it” stage right now.  A few clarifying points….I don’t think she wants food plots or tree clearing, as it stands, there are a lot of deer and no need to bring them in or clear shooting lanes.  Big consideration is that not only she, but also her neighbors have horses although a conscientious hunter would easily be able to work around that.  As you look at the arial pic I put up, her farm continues to the top where you see the buildings.  The farm to the left is 300+ acres and has 90 free roaming horses.  The farm to the right is 100+ acres and no livestock.  Her farm continues across the road to the north of her buildings with another 100 acres but there are very high dollar horse farms on all sides of it.  As a matter of fact there is a tract of 40 acres next to her property across the road that an old time owner who doesn’t live on the land went and rough planted some soybeans so he could get a deer nuisance permit.  He had 5 guys sitting on the road spotlighting and shooting deer at 10 pm one night.  Neighbors called the sheriff and made them pick up the downed deer and clear out.  That situation is ongoing.

 

a farmers permit is another option, but it sounds like Virginia requires crops for one.  Different states are different rules. 
 

horses are no problem, especially if it’s archery only. I used to hunt around some horses that were spooky so no shooting around them or they might bolt. A hunter certainly won’t confuse a deer with a horse.  Free roaming cows are a pain and I don’t like to hunt around them given a choice. 
 

also, can you shoot me the farms address?  A couple hundred huntable acres, too many deer for the land, multiple big bucks just dying of old age.  Sign me up. I’ll come down for a week and just sort you out…. 
 

 

40 minutes ago, TOXIC said:

 

total sweetie. That’s just a yawn.

[TOXIC]

2 hours ago, casts_by_fly said:

total sweetie. That’s just a yawn.

Hahaha.  You are right.  It is a yawn but the “total sweetie” you don’t want to test. ??

[GreenPig]

2 hours ago, casts_by_fly said:

 

a farmers permit is another option, but it sounds like Virginia requires crops for one.  Different states are different rules. 
 

horses are no problem, especially if it’s archery only. I used to hunt around some horses that were spooky so no shooting around them or they might bolt. A hunter certainly won’t confuse a deer with a horse.  Free roaming cows are a pain and I don’t like to hunt around them given a choice. 
 

also, can you shoot me the farms address?  A couple hundred huntable acres, too many deer for the land, multiple big bucks just dying of old age.  Sign me up. I’ll come down for a week and just sort you out…. 
 

 

total sweetie. That’s just a yawn.

I've seen less impressive teeth on werewolves.

[Tennessee Boy]

4 hours ago, TOXIC said:

1st it was @Munkin's bat that he caught on popper.  Now this vampire dog.  This site is starting to get scary and we're still weeks away from Halloween.   Hope I can sleep tonight.  

[Eric 26]

The good lord knew what he was doing when he created those 2? Beautiful looking pups to boot.

17 hours ago, TOXIC said:

 

[TOXIC]

All 3 of her dogs have a high protection drive but only the 2 GSD’s are formally trained and certified. 

[TnRiver46]

Since I’ve already hijacked this thread ……

 

i don’t know why but I always wanted a small black mutt dog with pointy ears. Those GSD are awesome tho!!! Dogs are the best protection 

[gimruis]

21 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

Dogs are the best protection 

Mine is all bark and no bite.  She can't even protect my hostas from invading bunnies.

 

 

[TnRiver46]

Just the bark scares away nefarious humans in the night 

[Eric 26]

After living with what we believe to be a female part lab mix for about a year I’ll agree with @gimruis . @TnRiver46My full blown female Shepard at least we believe she is as all 3 dogs are adopted would probably hide but our male whom we believe is at least part Shepard ?who was on deaths door upon fostering him I believe would fight to the death if anyone came in after hearing his bark  with order of protection being my wife, my teenage kids, the 2 cats probably his stuffed animal then me?….Just kidding he’d probably save me before the stuffed animal ?

[Tennessee Boy]

Labs are terrible guard dogs.   I read they are the 2nd least likely breed to bite behind Golden Retrievers.   If one does act aggressively toward you,  all you have to do is throw a tennis ball and he’ll be your friend for life.   

[Woody B]

My dog only attacks me.  

 

[TOXIC]

We have not replaced our last protector.  Cobey was a 110lb Blue Weimaraner and the second one of the breed we have owned.  He was an awesome dog, friendly to everyone but instinctively knew when to kick into protection mode.  I firmly believe he thwarted a potential home break in when both my wife and I were working.  It was such a loss, we have not attempted to get another.  Time will tell.  

[TOXIC]

And as an aside, my daughter has decided to let a local guy hunt who has permission on an adjoining plot in exchange for some field work.  These are her hayfields.  He wants private access to an area where he can comfortably take his kids to hunt without any other hunters.  I may invite a friend down from Michigan to hunt her land since he is always bringing blackstrap’s to our annual fishing trip.  

[txchaser]

10 hours ago, TOXIC said:

And as an aside, my daughter has decided to let a local guy hunt who has permission on an adjoining plot in exchange for some field work.  These are her hayfields.  He wants private access to an area where he can comfortably take his kids to hunt without any other hunters.  I may invite a friend down from Michigan to hunt her land since he is always bringing blackstrap’s to our annual fishing trip.  

Great outcome. If it doesn't workout for whatever reason, there might be someone around local that either meat hunts (ie happy to thin the does out) or would hunt to feed others. Down at the farm there's a decent amount of infrastructure in the county for getting good meat to people in need.

 

[TOXIC]

13 hours ago, txchaser said:

Great outcome. If it doesn't workout for whatever reason, there might be someone around local that either meat hunts (ie happy to thin the does out) or would hunt to feed others. Down at the farm there's a decent amount of infrastructure in the county for getting good meat to people in need.

 

It should be fine.  There are a lot of groups in Northern Virginia like “Hunters for the Hungry” who donate all their meat to homeless shelters.  The guy she’s going to let hunt just wants a safer place for his kids than the plot he has that he shares with a group.  She’ll get some back straps out of the deal as well as field work.  He’s offered to cut hay on her fields for a 60/40 split which also helps her out.  The only “problem” is a group of “locals” who are confrontational and reckless.  She already has had one run in with them when they parked on the road outside her house and drank beer, spotlighted and shot deer at 10pm on a plot of land with horses all around and a very narrow safe shooting lane.  Sheriff was called and so far, so good.  Time will tell. 

[Eric 26]

@TOXIC We need a dual reaction button for your last post so I’ll use my phones instead. ? for the first 3/4 ?for the last quarter.