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The big debate on live scope


dodgeguy

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I've been fishing with my brother in law for a few months on his boat equipped with live scope. His setup is all Garmin with spot lock. Regular sonar and side view and GPS all work together on one network with the live scope. I can see what he sees on his front screen. You can also see under the boat and behind the boat a little ways. I've learned a bit about it and I'll tell you I don't think there is a chance of banning it. You still have to get the fish to bite. I've seen fish turn away from lures a lot of times. Today they were on The bottom in 40 feet. You had to pay attention to see them start to rise.Water temp was 45 degrees. Baitfish were all over but the smallies weren't going hog wild on them . One time Neil's lure was headed down to a group of 3 and as it got close the fish just scattered and disappeared. They wanted nothing to do with his blade bait. Another time he had a dimiki rig on and you could could see the fish go after it . I told him he was gonna get hit and he did. Live scope is a tool to catch fish it's not cheating. It will get cheaper as time goes by. Angler skill is still required maybe even more so. It also teaches you about fish behavior and reaction. The tournament broadcasters should show the catch and then the announcer should show a full screen picture of the anglers screen and explain what's going on. That would make the broadcast more interesting as long as you had a good commentary like maybe Mark Zona.IMHO livescope is here to stay.

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Whatever your opinions on FFS are......all catches/records must be viewed through the lens of either pre/post FFS.    A DD caught using a scope is very different than catching one on instinct alone.   

 

Josh Jones caught a single DD before FFS, he's caught hundreds since.   That's always the stat I go back to.     

 

It's not getting banned in general that's for sure.    

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A few weeks back I took a friend fishing and it was the first time he had seen live sonar.  On the way to the lake he was talking about how it seemed like cheating to him.  Afterwards,  I ask him if he still thought it was cheating.  He said no,  he couldn’t figure it out what he was looking at.

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I’ve seen bass run away from lures in clear water for years, all ya gotta do is pay attention. I’ve fished in boats with live and it’s not something I can do, too difficult. 
 

the people selling it have the fisherman by the short and curlies, the more of these debates the more they sell 

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On 12/2/2023 at 8:02 PM, AlabamaSpothunter said:

Whatever your opinions on FFS are......all catches/records must be viewed through the lens of either pre/post FFS.    A DD caught using a scope is very different than catching one on instinct alone.   

 

Josh Jones caught a single DD before FFS, he's caught hundreds since.   That's always the stat I go back to.     

 

It's not getting banned in general that's for sure.    

That is such a ridiculous take.  I mean where do you draw the line on pre and post anything?  When flashers came out there were going to revolutionize the game, then it was 2d sonar and holy **** sidescan is going to change everything and live sonar is no different.  I mean they do have different records in all the majhor sports to accomodate for the new technology as it is created....oh wait, no they don't.

Nobody catches a double digit on instinct alone.,  It is either someone who goes out with a guide who puts them on fish, some kid with a barbie pole and some minnows or a person who puts some time in and learns where the big fish are.  Someone like Josh Jones isn't some guy who just came off his couch and started catching DD bass.  He probably had "instinct" on where they might be but nobody likes to just fish because you think they are there and they aren't.  

There used to be a guy on here who was an electronics guru and he would always say he would chuckle idling by people sitting right on top of the fish and he wouldn't make a cast without seeing a fish on his screen.  Oh and this was before livescope.  

It's nothing more than another tool to learn and use to the best of your advantage.

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I think FFS is fascinating, kind of like long range hunting.  I respect folks who use the tools and use them well.  I have no intent of getting FFS or shooting deer long range.  Just not worth the dollar spend for me.  That doesn't mean I think guys and gals who use FFS are cheating.  Quite the contrary I think they are embracing technology and utilizing it to its fullest.  Early adaptors.  Just like the guys who used the first flashers back in the day.  If I were a serious tournament fisherman my thoughts would be different.  I'm my not sure you can compete successfully, at higher levels, without it given all things being equal between anglers.  Guys who are whining about it on social media platforms need to chill.  Or learn to use it effectively to compete, could be a lot of J factor for missing the FFS boat.  It is not ruining bass fishing.  Is catching fish offshore with FFS worse than catching them sight fishing on bed?  I personally don't believe so.  Division in the fishing community is not good for any of us.  My .02.  Peace.

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24 minutes ago, flyfisher said:

That is such a ridiculous take.  I mean where do you draw the line on pre and post anything?  When flashers came out there were going to revolutionize the game, then it was 2d sonar and holy **** sidescan is going to change everything and live sonar is no different.  I mean they do have different records in all the majhor sports to accomodate for the new technology as it is created....oh wait, no they don't.

Nobody catches a double digit on instinct alone.,  It is either someone who goes out with a guide who puts them on fish, some kid with a barbie pole and some minnows or a person who puts some time in and learns where the big fish are.  Someone like Josh Jones isn't some guy who just came off his couch and started catching DD bass.  He probably had "instinct" on where they might be but nobody likes to just fish because you think they are there and they aren't.  

There used to be a guy on here who was an electronics guru and he would always say he would chuckle idling by people sitting right on top of the fish and he wouldn't make a cast without seeing a fish on his screen.  Oh and this was before livescope.  

It's nothing more than another tool to learn and use to the best of your advantage.

I'm not against FFS, but to say it hasn't changed the sport radically unlike any single other advancement is in your words, ridiculous.  

 

Again somebody who catches a DD without a scope is significantly more impressive to me than somebody who uses a scope to catch one, same goes for somebody who catches a 30lb Smallie bag up north, or a 4lb Crappie, or a 2lb Bream, etc. 

 

FFS is an absolute gamechanger, not sure how that's even debatable anymore.  

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It's fishing guys.  Take a breath.  There's no wrong or right here.

 

Relaxing Chill Out GIF by SWR3

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I won't do LS only because I'm to old to learn new tech. Lol

Plus I catch enough fish to keep fishing.

Lame excuse, I know.

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13 hours ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

I'm not against FFS, but to say it hasn't changed the sport radically unlike any single other advancement is in your words, ridiculous.  

 

Again somebody who catches a DD without a scope is significantly more impressive to me than somebody who uses a scope to catch one, same goes for somebody who catches a 30lb Smallie bag up north, or a 4lb Crappie, or a 2lb Bream, etc. 

 

FFS is an absolute gamechanger, not sure how that's even debatable anymore.  

Never said it's not a game changer. 

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Yeah I wasn't directing that reply at you, rather replying to the poster who quoted me.  

 

It just gets old hearing folks under sell the tech, or the opposite position which is claiming it's going to ruin fishing forever like Randy B.    Most of us see this issue through both lenses.   Certain aspects are very concerning, while other aspects are incredibly fascinating and entertaining.   

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I do think of FFS differently than other past tech advancements.   Flasher, Downscan, Sidescan, etc all exposed massive amounts of information about the underwater environment, and even can tell us whether fish are present in the vicinity.   FFS allows experienced users to not only target individual fish, and distinguish between different species of fish, but, to watch in real time how each fish reacts to a presentation, and even allows an angler to adjust presentation on same cast until bass eats the lure.  FFS is enabling experts to single out individual bass on or close to the bottom in 40+ FOW.  IMO, these aren't incremental changes.

 

   I'm not yet bothered much by the effects on bass or even on bass tournaments.   Mainly because relatively few bass are harvested...at least compared to other species.  I do worry about crappies, and I don't even target them often.  FFS is enabling crappie hunters to target and remove massive numbers (unlimited, in my state) of the largest crappie in a lake.

  Guys that used to take 30 a day with a few 15s mixed in can now fairly easily take 30 that are all 16+.  

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I quit using mine.  As soon as I'd turn it on fish would start jumping into the boat. 

 

Edit:added.  Different species are.....different.   Crappie will hang around, stacked up like a Christmas tree until you've pretty much caught every single one of them.   Largemouth bass will usually be hidden, sometimes hard to see (at least for me)on sonar.  They'll wait until prey comes by and ambush it.   When spotted bass are active they tend to "hunt" in what I call wolf packs.   They're fairly easy to catch when they're active.  When they're not active they just pretty much ignore everything.   I don't have enough Smallmouth experience to comment on them.   I've caught several big Catfish (and a few bass) by following balls of baitfish around until I see some action.  Precise casting is needed even in deep water.   My Son in Law trolls for Striped Bass.  He says they tend to hunt in wolf packs too.   He has live sonar on front and rear, and attempts to steer the boat to bring the bait over them.   He's caught a 26 pounder this year.  

 

Active Target.jpg

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It has most definitely changed the game for me.  It makes it possible to fish in ways that were impossible before, like tracking suspended fish in deep water.  Those new techniques require a tremendous amount of skill which I have not developed yet.  What I love most about it is it makes fishing so much more interesting.  Knowing that a fish followed your bait is much more exciting than just casting and wondering if there are any down there.  Randy praises the mystery of fishing.   I prefer to know what’s happening.

 

Is it the greatest advancement in fishing technology ever?  I’m not sure.   If the goal is to have fun then it’s the greatest thing since the trolling motor.  For tournament fishing I’m not so sure.  If I was fishing a tournament where you could use FFS or GPS but not both.  I would probably choose GPS depending on the time of the year and the lake I was fishing.

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9 hours ago, Choporoz said:

I do worry about crappies, and I don't even target them often.  FFS is enabling crappie hunters to target and remove massive numbers (unlimited, in my state) of the largest crappie in a lake.

This is a much bigger issue here during winter when guys are ice fishing with live sonar now.  Its greatly reduces the amount of time it used to take to locate a school than it does now.  And virtually none of them are released.  At least most bass are released.

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Been using it since 2021, it's shown me structure,  fish activities,  behavior,  edges. It's shown what you thought you new you new nothing. Have 2 dd, neither with ffs, I can count on 1 hand how many fish over 5lbs I've put in the boat using it. But it's a great tool when you want to fish a bait in 20ft of water over flooded trees, when you can fish a tree you didn't know about, a weed edge to follow or find that is 4ft under the water. Those that hate it don't understand it. I got bashed for it to be the 1st in our club to have it,  but yet most had spot locking trolling motors. I choose to upgrade my electronics,  never crying about them not having to fight wind like I did. So should we make "exceptions" before spotlock and after? I mean before you had to keep yourself in place not just hit the button...... it's fishing, it's a tool, you still have to use your instincts. Lure selection,  presentation,  and location to catch fish.  The debate over pre and post ffs is nonsense.

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I wish I knew how to use it but that’s way harder than just fishing to me. Some say it takes no skill?? I bet they never tried it, it’s 100x easier for me to just drag a Carolina rig and set the hook when you feel something 

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On 12/4/2023 at 7:24 PM, flyfisher said:

That is such a ridiculous take.  I mean where do you draw the line on pre and post anything? 

 

61*

 

(Old guys like me will understand this)

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