Smallmouth Ned Rig (Braid Concerns)

[casts_by_fly]

16 hours ago, MN Fisher said:

Just bring a pair of braid scissors.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Booms-Fishing-Braid-Scissor-Scissors/dp/B08793R91F/ref=sr_1_12_sspa?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.mgIznDWgFDxPhyz1l-V_Q-UR1nXrOj1kTO4juq-Lo-9_GPxIHfVIiUjLWR9r9dZUlTJMRdV98K1OgaFOSD93WJAzg1CNUaxwGd6HJ6IdmDrVHUvVXooeC2mK270LX4DlUxgX7SaUjH1kNaG79aa8LWMmEsP1voJkV_cMu5tBbOzmA_jEWjHcQvYGAXErsvgVXKjHNx3nyGBkPbbJiq-Ch86nWw3yFlN1rLDd-iPyf0ISbZk6Q4BnsqhaCvERdV8RiRUS1YBtCyIwdYIxUutxjsIz3qI3yrCH1fA1ZjHq8ko.0e1nkECi7qrpbYuzcMvrG2oGDTBM868zU2o5PtYXN5I&dib_tag=se&keywords=braid%2Bscissors&qid=1715633328&sr=8-12-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9tdGY&th=1

 

While braid scissors are great for tying and rigging, I am completely against using them to cut off a snag unless you can get very close to the lure.  There is nothing worst than coming across where someone snagged a lure on braid and left 50' of braid trailing because that's as close as they could get.  Its a killer for trolling motor props (and I'd guess outboard props too) and if the trailing braid snags into something a new snagging hazzard for someone else.  Two years ago I was fishing down a bank and thought I was fishing down a branch of a tree as my lure kept veering right.  On the third cast I thought a fish hit it as it stopped vibrating so I set the hook.  It ended up being a piece of ~50 lb braid that someone had snagged a lure right at the bank in brush and the tail end was in brush 20' out.  It was a beautiful little cut to cast into and I wasn't the first person to snag on the braid.  I must have spent 5 minutes pulling line out of that snarl, braid and mono alike.  

 

For this specific case, running 10-15 lb braid for neds will mean that you straighten any hooks before you snap the braid.  If you're running a 4-8 lb leader then you'll snap the hook knot first.  For heavier braid I'll move the boat in to get a snag, but if its deeper than 5' or so then I wrap the line around a pair of pliers and start pulling.  With 50lb braid you can straighten an EWG hook.

[gimruis]

2 minutes ago, casts_by_fly said:

then I wrap the line around a pair of pliers and start pulling

I've seen people use a woodel dowel for this purpose too.  Basically anything other than your hands as long as it can get a decent grip on the braid.

[casts_by_fly]

4 minutes ago, gimruis said:

I've seen people use a woodel dowel for this purpose too.  Basically anything other than your hands as long as it can get a decent grip on the braid.

 

yep.  I just don't carry one of those in the kayak!  I do have pliers though so...  Use what you got.  I don't prefer to put the strain on the reel spool.  Best case you get line dig.  Worst case you strip the drag or a gear.

[Ersteman]

You're going to hear many things from different people. Use what you are most comfortable using. The smaller line and longer the spinning rod, the further your cast will go. If you're in clear water, you'll want to cast it far. I use 8lb braid to a 6lb or 8lb fluoro leader. My bro uses 6lb straight mono and he usually outfishes me on the ned. If you're fishing near a bunch of rocks, I like the football Ned jigheads with a metal weedguard. Good luck on your trip! Let us know how you do.

[TnRiver46]

On 5/14/2024 at 9:42 AM, casts_by_fly said:

 

yep.  I just don't carry one of those in the kayak!  I do have pliers though so...  Use what you got.  I don't prefer to put the strain on the reel spool.  Best case you get line dig.  Worst case you strip the drag or a gear.

Paddle works like the dowel also 

[casts_by_fly]

1 minute ago, TnRiver46 said:

Paddle works like the dowel also 

yeah, and mine also has the unhooking hook in one blade which I’ve used maybe twice in 4 years. But the paddle is strapped down almost the entirety of every trip and the pliers are handy. 

[PaulVE64]

Im not throwing a lot of stuff over 1/2 oz for smallies, and most of it is around 1/4 oz  including lead and/or plastics.

 

If thats the kinda stuff your using then i would recommend a 7' or so Medium Light rod with a fast tip on it. And bring the reel if youre going to go handle it before you buy it.

And definately pút braid on that real. 

Start practicing a leader on it. Use which ever one you are best at. FG is great but is easy to do badly, the uni to uni is simple to do and has won a lot of money.

[tkunk]

That's where I fish. Everyone I know uses braid with a fluoro leader for finesse lures.

 

This isn't what you asked, but here goes. By July, rocks will be 100% covered in slime, so you can't fish bottom-contact lures unless you're around sand. So in the summer, I use a drop shot or spy bait about 95% of the time. If fish are shallow, weightless senkos are also good. If it's very windy, fishing jerkbaits and spinnerbaits very aggressively in shallow, wind-blown areas is a good approach.

[Smokinal]

I'll throw in here.

I'm a braid/fluoro leader guy on all my setups. Braid just casts so much better, farther, better feel, no stretch, no memory...on and on.

And yes, my ned setup is 10lb braid to 10lb fluoro. I like 6-8' of leader

[JJP]

Braid is ok but I like 6-8lb mono for ned rigs 

[Munkin]

Fish with what you are comfortable with as far as line. I have been using straight floro 6-10lb line on spinning rods for 20 years. Last year I tried the braid to floro leader for the fish time which has plus and minuses IMO. The 3 rods I am fishing Neds on are: 6-10MLF 6lb floro, 6-8 MXF 8lb floro, 7MF 15lb braid w/8lb floro leader. 

 

Allen

[OkobojiEagle]

On 5/14/2024 at 8:21 AM, MN Fisher said:

It's not the hookset - it's fighting the fish. I actually had one, fought it for a while, then lost it...hook was straightened out just from the 'battle'

Not a problem for those of us that back-reel...

On 5/14/2024 at 8:21 AM, MN Fisher said:

It's not the hookset - it's fighting the fish. I actually had one, fought it for a while, then lost it...hook was straightened out just from the 'battle'

Not a problem for those of us that back-reel...

[TOXIC]

I’ll be the boomer here and go against the group think of everything needs to be braid. A Ned rig is finesse and there’s nothing finesse about braid, nothing. Just because braid has a smaller diameter than mono or fluro doesn’t make it better.  Mono has memory you say?  I use a line conditioner and periodically feed out line and let it relax.  Braid cuts through weeds you say?  I’m not fishing a ned in weeds or pads but if I do encounter them I haven’t had a problem other than fouling the hook.  Regardless of leader length, braid floats and affects the action.  And finally, no matter how good your knot tying skills are you’ve just added another failure point to your setup.  I do use braid for some techniques but anything considered finesse, is off limits.  Here are some catches on a Ned with 6lb straight mono. 

[Junk Fisherman]

4 hours ago, TOXIC said:

I’ll be the boomer here and go against the group think of everything needs to be braid. A Ned rig is finesse and there’s nothing finesse about braid, nothing. Just because braid has a smaller diameter than mono or fluro doesn’t make it better.  Mono has memory you say?  I use a line conditioner and periodically feed out line and let it relax.  Braid cuts through weeds you say?  I’m not fishing a ned in weeds or pads but if I do encounter them I haven’t had a problem other than fouling the hook.  Regardless of leader length, braid floats and affects the action.  And finally, no matter how good your knot tying skills are you’ve just added another failure point to your setup.  I do use braid for some techniques but anything considered finesse, is off limits.  

 

 

What does mono do better than braid for finesse?  I agree that tying a leader is adding another knot but I'm quite knot challenged and I can tie a Alberto knot just fine.  I could post a number of big carp, catfish, and lake trout that I have caught on my finesse rig with a braid and a FC leader.  Never a problem with two knots on those fish.  And I use 10 lb YGK G-Soul which is a sinking braid with a 2 lb diameter.  Not sure, what mono you are using but I doubt you are getting better casting distance and if you are, it would increase if you went to braid.  I ran tests comparing my 10 lb YGK to 7 lb Gamma Touch and I consistently got 20%-25% greater casting distance with the braid.  Plus, the braid is considerably more sensitive which is vital when dragging a little jig over rocks.  I spent several seasons using straight fluorocarbon, which is more sensitive than mono, and the braid is much more sensitive.     Obviously, you do very well with mono but I have no doubt that if you spent some time with a high quality braid and really dialed in the presentation, you'd come to the conclusion that the braid/leader setup is much superior than straight mono for finesse fishing.    

[gimruis]

I always had an issue getting a decent hookset using straight mono on my spinning setups which is why I went to braid and fluoro instead.  Too much stretch combined with a spinning rod/reel was like fishing with a rubber band.

[A-Jay]

Smallmouth Ned Rig (Braid No Concerns)

Braid to leader is my jam.

A-Jay

[TOXIC]

@Junk Fisherman don’t get me wrong, the braid craze is strong and alive and I don’t disparage anyone for using it but for me, mono has outperformed braid in finesse.  Maybe it’s because I am so accustomed to it that I don’t feel the added sensitivity and when I did try the braid leader combo on Ned and dropshot, I got waaaay too much feedback through the line.  I don’t need to feel the cracks on rocks and every individual leaf on a milfoil plant.  The light wire hooks I use in both situations don’t require a hefty hookset and with most of my finesse applications, I’m not casting 100 yards.  I guess just generally I feel that finesse isn’t finesse anymore and fishing a Senko on 30lb braid with a 15lb leader isn’t anywhere near finesse.  I’m about to do an article for Yamamoto that really asks the question…”Is Finesse Fishing Dead?” Because, that’s how I feel.  I feel like we’ve lost the art of pairing the right equipment with the right line and presentation in favor of just overpowering every fish that bites.       Pet peeve at its highest.😂

[Junk Fisherman]

1 hour ago, TOXIC said:

@Junk Fisherman don’t get me wrong, the braid craze is strong and alive and I don’t disparage anyone for using it but for me, mono has outperformed braid in finesse.  Maybe it’s because I am so accustomed to it that I don’t feel the added sensitivity and when I did try the braid leader combo on Ned and dropshot, I got waaaay too much feedback through the line.  I don’t need to feel the cracks on rocks and every individual leaf on a milfoil plant.  The light wire hooks I use in both situations don’t require a hefty hookset and with most of my finesse applications, I’m not casting 100 yards.  I guess just generally I feel that finesse isn’t finesse anymore and fishing a Senko on 30lb braid with a 15lb leader isn’t anywhere near finesse.  I’m about to do an article for Yamamoto the really asks the question…”Is Finesse Fishing Dead?” Because, that’s how I feel.  I feel like we’ve lost the art of pairing the right equipment with the right line and presentation in favor of just overpowering every fish that bites.       Pet peeve at its highest.😂

 

I hear what you're saying.  I do not overpower fish with my braid setup.  You don't do a major hookset- more a swift raise up on the rod letting the braid's no stretch bury the little hook in the bass's mouth.  Plus, anything much over keeper size and you have to play the fish and let it tire itself out- at least that is what I do.  I went out this week and caught multiple fish in the 3.5-4 lb range (pic for context) and I definitely did not overpower those fish.  I constantly pull out drag if the fish is too close to the boat and I feel it's going to take another run.  This is a must when I am smallmouth fishing and using Ned or light swimbaits.  Maybe guys are more aggressive when using medium action rods and 20 lb braid but that's not me.  About the only time I lose a fish is if I can't keep him from jumping.  I'm headed to Northern Michigan next week so I'm sure I'll be playing fish often in this manner!

[pdxfisher]

I use braid with a fluoro leader but I think that it is not possible to have a line setup that won't do a good job catching fish with a Ned rig

[waymont]

On 5/13/2024 at 11:13 AM, DanChicagoFishing said:

Hi All,

 

I will be taking a vacation out to Door County (Northern Wisconsin) over the 4th of July this year.

 

I want to utilize a ned rig set up on one of my rods. 

 

I have done quite a bit of digging, and it seems a spinning rod 6.5-7.2' (M OR MF) 8 ish # braid, and an 8 ish # leader of Fluro is what a lot of fellow anglers recommend! (10ish feet leader) 

 

I have never used braid line before, as i've only utilized mono/fluro. 

 

Im concerned a bit with switching to braid for the ned rig set up as i've never used it, and understand there are potentially bad outcomes with being a first-time user of braid.

 

Most Concerning to me and a few questions i have is: The line cuts that can be caused to hands, as well as potential damage to the reel/eyes on the rod.

 

I feel im missing out on the benefits of braid on a spinning rod based on my above precautions.

 

Am I completely over thinking this, and i should just put braid on my spinning rod with a fluro leader to throw a ned rig? 

 

Thank you all very much for any responses/thoughts you may have

 

- Dan 

 

If you’re new to Ned fishing learn the hook set. Feel the bite, reel fast and firmly lift your rod. Never smash thh with a big hook set.

[Blue Raider Bob]

On 5/13/2024 at 5:04 PM, Scott F said:

I’ve been using straight 8lb braid with no leader and Ned rigs for years. For me, there aren’t many advantages to using a leader, the disadvantages are having to have extra line, tying an extra knot and having that knot go through the guides on my rod which drives me crazy. I fish for smallmouth in rocky lakes and rivers and have never had my line break from rubbing on rocks. If my Ned rig is in the rocks, it’s getting snagged and I have to break it off. The light braid casts farther and the smaller diameter has reduced drag and lets all lures run deeper than thicker mono or flouro does. 

Although we are in the minority, I second this. Quit fishing leaders years ago and don't miss them at all. Use Sufix 832 10lb. and fish rocky rivers. When I feel a slight roughening of my line near the lure, I retie. I don't like the trouble of the leader knot. Just one more thing to go wrong.

[DanChicagoFishing]

19 hours ago, waymont said:

If you’re new to Ned fishing learn the hook set. Feel the bite, reel fast and firmly lift your rod. Never smash thh with a big hook set.

Thank you Waymont!

 

I have made sure to pay close attention to the hook set and have noticed it is more of a reel into a slight rod lift to actually set the hook.

 

Do you have any suggestions on setting Drag for the ned rig? Do you recommend relatively loose drag (pulled out with minimal strength by hand) to ensure your reel into a light hook set actually sets, and adjust drag accordingly for a bigger fish? Or do you start with a pretty tight drag to begin with, and loosen up if needed? 

 

Greatly appreciate all of your feedback! 

[waymont]

14 minutes ago, DanChicagoFishing said:

Thank you Waymont!

 

I have made sure to pay close attention to the hook set and have noticed it is more of a reel into a slight rod lift to actually set the hook.

 

Do you have any suggestions on setting Drag for the ned rig? Do you recommend relatively loose drag (pulled out with minimal strength by hand) to ensure your reel into a light hook set actually sets, and adjust drag accordingly for a bigger fish? Or do you start with a pretty tight drag to begin with, and loosen up if needed? 

 

Greatly appreciate all of your feedback! 

Your drag should slip a little on the hook set. After that adjust as you fight the fish. I have caught many 4-6lb bass using this style of drag setting. I always use 6-8lb leader, never more.

On 6/1/2024 at 9:24 AM, TOXIC said:

nothing finesse about braid

I disagree. I use 8lb Power Pro, and it is crazy thin. It's so thin it doesn't really float. With 6 or 8lb FC leader it's a perfect set up. I've tried 6lb straight Mono or FC, and it wasn't for me. There's many ways we all fish thankfully. For me it's braid to leader.

[Tennessee Boy]

I’m moving more to using all braid with a leader.  I’m use to the way lures act when tied to mono.  It’s a subtle difference but I think I can feel the difference.   I’ll admit it could all be in my head.  I think the science suggests that straight braid should be superior to braid to leader.   I’ll probably get there one day.  
 

To be clear,  I’m talking about taking advantage of the smaller diameter of braid.  Those who are fishing 30+lb braid when 6 lb mono will do are choosing the worst of both worlds in my humble opinion.