The world doesn't agree with you. The legal profession and case law doesn't agree with you.

It's not about my opinion of what should happen in a perfect world.

 

If you organize a parade or a kite flying contest you better have lots of insurance. It's not just about boats and fish.

1 hour ago, Johnbt said:

The world doesn't agree with you. The legal profession and case law doesn't agree with you.

It's not about my opinion of what should happen in a perfect world.

 

If you organize a parade or a kite flying contest you better have lots of insurance. It's not just about boats and fish.

Wasn't really talking about the legal or lawsuit matters...Was taking about the sentiment of other anglers, it's why I put "blame" in quotes.  So many are blaming "those darn tournaments"...But based on what's known so far, the only connection there is that the driver was a participant.

 

Obviously MLF and probably every company on the side of the guys boat will be involved in some kind of lawsuit, maybe even the gas station he filled up at on the way to the ramp.  

 

This is why I don't post as much as I otherwise would.  

Ease up gentlemen.  Time to take a breather.

Time will tell if something has been learned from these events.

 

My guess is that nothing will change. These rigs will throttle down with their 250 outboards at the next event and race to their spots.

 

Prove me wrong.

8 hours ago, Johnbt said:

"I get that people's first reaction many times is to stifle personal freedoms"

 

Let's say the tournament organizers decide to limit the entrants to 50 mph. Or 35 mph. No personal freedoms have been stifled. The tournament is a business. The entrants are there voluntarily and have to agree in writing to obey the tournament rules. 

They agree to all of the other tournament rules that do not apply to people out fishing for the day for the pure enjoyment of it. You know the other rules: don't fish here, don't fish there, don't use live bait or cut bait, start when we tell you, stop when we tell you, etc. Those rules don't stifle any freedoms. The entrants have the freedom to not enter if they don't like them. 

People aren't clarifying that it's just tournament rules, people are throwing out blanket statements like "speed limits on lakes need to be reduced"

 

It's also worth pointing out that thousands of people are killed every day in motor vehicle crashes, and every public road has a speed limit.  

 

37 minutes ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

thousands of people are killed every day in motor vehicle crashes

 

Thousands???

 

 

 

 

Google says:

Quote

In the United States, motor vehicle crashes are a leading cause of death, and kill over 120 people every day.

source: https://www.cdc.gov/transportation-safety/about/index.html#:~:text=Motor vehicle crashes are a public health concern both in,injuries and deaths are preventable.

 

3 minutes ago, Glenn said:

 

Thousands???

 

 

 

 

Google says:

source: https://www.cdc.gov/transportation-safety/about/index.html#:~:text=Motor vehicle crashes are a public health concern both in,injuries and deaths are preventable.

 

Eh about 40K per year, still a lot of deaths, maybe @AlabamaSpothunter meant per month. Either way there are lots of people killed on the road every year.

Naw, I had no clue, but thanks to Glen's politely worded/meme'd reply, I'm well aware of the number now. 

 

Point still stands the same, 120 people every day die in cars on roads with speed limits.   That was much better, wasn't it.  

Thing is, drunk driving is the #1 cause of driving deaths, not speed. So...it's not a fair comparison when the discussion is about speed-related accidents.

 

Anyway, the more subtle point I've been trying to make is that this thread is getting heated, and it's time to pump the brakes.  When people start making exaggerated claims, say things like "this is why I don't post", reply in rapid-fire back-n-forth, and so on, it's a clear sign people are getting emotional, tense, amped, what have you.  None of it is conducive to productive discourse. 

 

It all points to rapid escalation leading to arguing and fighting, ultimately ending with a number of PO'd members.

 

People here are quick to criticize the moderators for shutting down threads "early", but when we see these signs, we know where it's going.  So here's your chance, guys, to take it down a notch and keep it civil.  If we end up having to shut it down anyway later, well....you had your shot.

 

Yes a lot of people die on the road even though we have speed limits.  Does anyone think we should do away with speed limits?

The only reason it such a big story is because boat accidents aren’t common and auto accidents are. You can add regulations to whatever you want and these things are still going to happen. Limit the horsepower and limit speeds and you still have a deadly boat because you don’t have safety features and a solid exterior like you do an automobile. Also, if you limit speeds, who’s going to enforce it? I don’t know about down south but up here you rarely see marine patrol or the DNR. 
 

Boater education and a required boater license I feel should be required but that isn’t an end all either.

18 minutes ago, 12poundbass said:

The only reason it such a big story is because boat accidents aren’t common and auto accidents are. You can add regulations to whatever you want and these things are still going to happen. Limit the horsepower and limit speeds and you still have a deadly boat because you don’t have safety features and a solid exterior like you do an automobile. Also, if you limit speeds, who’s going to enforce it? I don’t know about down south but up here you rarely see marine patrol or the DNR. 
 

Boater education and a required boater license I feel should be required but that isn’t an end all either.

The problem with having a boating license program is that history has shown that inevitably governments become greedy and the license always becomes less about safety and more about money. If we could find a way to negate that and keep the money grubbers out of the licensing program then I could see being OK with it. Otherwise I feel it is an effort in futility.

12 minutes ago, 12poundbass said:

The only reason it such a big story is because boat accidents aren’t common and auto accidents are. You can add regulations to whatever you want and these things are still going to happen. Limit the horsepower and limit speeds and you still have a deadly boat because you don’t have safety features and a solid exterior like you do an automobile. Also, if you limit speeds, who’s going to enforce it? I don’t know about down south but up here you rarely see marine patrol or the DNR. 
 

Boater education and a required boater license I feel should be required but that isn’t an end all either.

I think while not nearly as common as auto accidents they are more than most think...here are Missouri stats 2024-2025 - https://www.mshp.dps.missouri.gov/WP03/search.jsp

 

I think this made the news since it was a major fishing tournament organization but I know they happen probably more than most realize.

Both of my sons have their boating license. I barely trust either behind the wheel of a car 😂😂. Part of drivers education here at the HS my boys went to included boaters education…

My state requires passing a "boater safety course", but it was as comical as it was frustrating.  Aside from a few questions about waterskiing, it was 98% about saltwater commercial fishing regulations and less about boater safety.  I mean, what bass boater wants or needs to know how far out in to international waters they need to be to empty septic tanks?  And yet, there it was on the test.

 

And I've never been asked for the card.  

 

So...unfortunately it's more about revenue than safety in my state.

3 hours ago, Glenn said:

what bass boater wants or needs to know how far out in to international waters they need to be to empty septic tanks

So what’s the answer? It might come in handy during trivia night. 😁

 

Seriously though, I didn’t know that was a thing they could legally do. I try to learn something new every day, and you sir have completed my day.

Tragedies do happen, as do accidents. But so many of these things are single points of failure by a reckless captain and/or not taking basic safety steps. If you, at high speed, hit a boat that is sitting still, that is your fault. 

I can't speak for other areas of the country, but in our neck of the woods the lakes have gotten much more popular since Covid. More people, watercraft, in a given area means much more care must be taken to keep safe. Situational awareness is even more necessary, and slower speeds must be part of it. 

4 hours ago, 12poundbass said:

So what’s the answer? It might come in handy during trivia night. 😁

 

Seriously though, I didn’t know that was a thing they could legally do. I try to learn something new every day, and you sir have completed my day.

Dude…for real…my kids already refer to me as the walking jeopardy machine. I gotta fill some knowledge space with more useless stuff!

Minnesota is requiring a mandatory boater safety training course (online) for anyone under the age of 41 starting July 1. We have more boat owners per capita than any other state in the country.

 

I’m not saying this is the end all, be all solution but I have no objections to it. The cost is about 60 bucks for a 3-4 hour course, and then you have to pass an exam at the end. Honestly they should make it mandatory for everyone, in phases.

 

Statistically speaking, getting in a car and driving on the road every day is the riskiest activity most of us take with a regular basis. Nothing else comes that close from an accident standpoint, including a boating accident. Stay safe out there and drive defensively.

28 minutes ago, gim said:

Statistically speaking, getting in a car and driving on the road every day is the riskiest activity most of us take with a regular basis

You haven’t been married to my wife for 30 yrs…

I think it's important to be mindful of the statistics here. Yes, its a tragedy that 3 folks lost their lives and yes it's a major headline right now. But in the grand scheme of things, that number is minute compared to the million other ways you can die. A quick google says MLF gets 15,000 unique competitors a year and there's 50,000 tournaments a year in this country. So let's assume on the low end, there's 100,000 people fishing in tournaments a year. 3 deaths amongst that population works out to 1 in 33,333. Divide that by the 60 years someone may fish competitively (again being super conservative here) and you're at 1 in 555.5 That's WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY less likely than any of these things:

 

• Heart Disease: 1 in 6
• Cancer: 1 in 7
• Unintentional Injuries: 1 in 91
• Stroke: 1 in 95
• Chronic Lower Respiratory Diseases: 1 in 91
• Opioid Overdose: 1 in 57
• Motor-vehicle crash: 1 in 95
• Fall: 1 in 91

 

All that to say maybe nothing needs to be done. Freak accidents will happen and that's unfortunate. But let's not everyone run out to buy bubbles to live in. 

42 minutes ago, JHoss said:

I think it's important to be mindful of the statistics here. Yes, its a tragedy that 3 folks lost their lives and yes it's a major headline right now. But in the grand scheme of things, that number is minute compared to the million other ways you can die. A quick google says MLF gets 15,000 unique competitors a year and there's 50,000 tournaments a year in this country. So let's assume on the low end, there's 100,000 people fishing in tournaments a year. 3 deaths amongst that population works out to 1 in 33,333. Divide that by the 60 years someone may fish competitively (again being super conservative here) and you're at 1 in 555.5 That's WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY less likely than any of these things:

 

• Heart Disease: 1 in 6
• Cancer: 1 in 7
• Unintentional Injuries: 1 in 91
• Stroke: 1 in 95
• Chronic Lower Respiratory Diseases: 1 in 91
• Opioid Overdose: 1 in 57
• Motor-vehicle crash: 1 in 95
• Fall: 1 in 91

 

All that to say maybe nothing needs to be done. Freak accidents will happen and that's unfortunate. But let's not everyone run out to buy bubbles to live in. 

I wouldn't hang my hat on made-up statistics to make an important point.

 

I was intrigued by the motor vehicle number.  Google tells me that

 

Insurance Information Institute (III) estimates:

The III estimates the lifetime odds of being involved in a car crash to be 1 in 366. 

National Safety Council (NSC) estimates:

The NSC estimates the lifetime odds of dying in a car crash to be 1 in 95. 

 

Three times as many people die in crashes than number involved in accidents. 

10 minutes ago, Choporoz said:

I wouldn't hang my hat on made-up statistics to make an important point.

 

...... (wait for it)

 

Three times as many people die in crashes than number involved in accidents. 

 

 

Guys...no more "stats" please.  Just....stop.  Please.

11 minutes ago, Choporoz said:

I wouldn't hang my hat on made-up statistics to make an important point.

 

I was intrigued by the motor vehicle number.  Google tells me that

 

Insurance Information Institute (III) estimates:

The III estimates the lifetime odds of being involved in a car crash to be 1 in 366. 

National Safety Council (NSC) estimates:

The NSC estimates the lifetime odds of dying in a car crash to be 1 in 95. 

 

Three times as many people die in crashes than number involved in accidents. 

Something is wrong with the data or way you're interpreting the data if it says that only 1 of every 336 people will be involved in a car crash at any point in their life.