A bit back, Professor @Pat Brown opined that bass aren't seeing what we think they're seeing, that they don't look at a frog lure and think it's a frog or look at a jerkbait and think it's a minnow. Pat didn't hypothesize what they are seeing (How could he?), but his idea has stuck with me. What do you think? Do you agree with the esteemed professor and if so, why then do they hit our lures? Or have you empirical evidence to suggest that when a bass hits a Booyah Pad Crasher Swamp Frog, it really thought it was a frog?

I've heard it's more likely that frog lures register as bluegills, sucking insects off the surface, than they do actual frogs.  I don't know what this claim is based on, though.  (it does however fit a personal observation that I see a lot more baitfish buzzing around shallow slop than actual frogs.)

 

As for the general question "what are bass seeing", the answer is probably mostly the same things we would see underwater.  They have pretty typical vertebrate visual systems, and good visual capabilities in both low-light and bright condition.  They can perceive depth, motion, and color, segregate figure from ground, and can easily learn through reinforcement to distinguish objects and shapes from each other.   

 

The harder question is what meaning(s) do they attach to what they see.  different physical attributes provide signals that may have inborn or learned meaning (like moving thing=alive; small moving thing = food; large looming shape = danger), but bass probably aren't thinking any particular lure is a particular kind of food most of the time.  Although their attention may be temporarily drawn to some attributes over others, for instance if they are feeding heavily on a particular forage species is that very active, they may be drawn to strike baits that share some physical characteristics with that species.  But exactly which characteristics matter the most, is something we usually don't know ahead of time and have to figure out.  And may change day to day, or even moment to moment. 

1 hour ago, MIbassyaker said:

I've heard it's more likely that frog lures register as bluegills, sucking insects off the surface, than they do actual frogs.  I don't know what this claim is based on, though.  (it does however fit a personal observation that I see a lot more baitfish buzzing around shallow slop than actual frogs.)

 

As for the general question "what are bass seeing", the answer is probably mostly the same things we would see underwater.  They have pretty typical vertebrate visual systems, and good visual capabilities in both low-light and bright condition.  They can perceive depth, motion, and color, segregate figure from ground, and can easily learn through reinforcement to distinguish objects and shapes from each other.   

 

The harder question is what meaning(s) do they attach to what they see.  different physical attributes provide signals that may have inborn or learned meaning (like moving thing=alive; small moving thing = food; large looming shape = danger), but bass probably aren't thinking any particular lure is a particular kind of food most of the time.  Although their attention may be temporarily drawn to some attributes over others, for instance if they are feeding heavily on a particular forage species is that very active, they may be drawn to strike baits that share some physical characteristics with that species.  But exactly which characteristics matter the most, is something we usually don't know ahead of time and have to figure out.  And may change day to day, or even moment to moment. 

 

You have an analytical mind like Professor Pat.

I’ll go back and read the article. I don’t think I have read it. But I believe I’m going to agree with him and you on the fact that bass are not  necessarily identifying what they eat.  
I’m sure at times maybe most times if fishing a worm, craw, jig or river bug relatively slow the bass can and will look at it 7 way to Sunday before they strike it. Not knowing what it exactly is but I guess instinct makes them hit it. It’s a meal. Y’all have had times where you pitched a worm and no sooner than it hit the water a bass was all over it. Not seconds, but millisecond in time. That just reactionary reflex on the fishes part. There are times that as soon as a crankbait hits the water they are on it and have it. Without a turn of the reel taking place. My thoughts are the fish doesn’t know that it is a Shad, bluegill, frog or a mouse that fell into the water. They just assume it is something within their environment and instinct tells them to jump on it. And I believe they can detect if it is to their liking or spit it out faster than you can set the hook. Possibly hit it, spit it out and hit it again. 

1 hour ago, Swamp Girl said:

 

You have an analytical mind like Professor Pat.

 

Coincidentally, perhaps, I am a professor in my day job (though not of bass)

In the 80s and 90s frogs were called Rats.   Did the bass decided they’re frogs not rats or did we?  😆

 

My personal theory is that bass don’t identify their prey before they eat it.  Certain things trigger them to strike.  A bass that has never seen a crawfish would still eat one even if it didn’t know what to call it.

I think bass do identify the target some of the time. They might not go
"man look at that Tennesee shad with hooks", but they certainly see a baitfish, and if they want to eat a shad, the color needs to be close.

 

If they are keying on shad and you have a good bite going with a shad crankbait, and you switch to another color, it's possible they might keep hitting it, and possible they will stop. That tells me they are deciding to hit it based on visual cues.

 

There is a range of colors for fish, so some might have more or less blue or chartreuse. So that normally isn't a factor.

 

Now, if you throw a lure of any type and bonk the critter on its head, sure, they swipe at it. That's a different type of fishing where you throw your lure in the bass's home.

 

A third type is when you have a crankbait that bounces off the log that the bass is sitting on. He sees a Tennessee shad with hooks coming, eh... not interested, but let's see what happens. Then that crazy shad bounces off the log and the bass eats it out of reaction to the motion.

 

The 4th type, is a plastic worm or craw when the fish sees it and decides, this is a fat worm, or a fat craw and I sure do want to eat it. Tricking the bass into thinking that the lure is food upon close inspection.

 

The 5th type of bite is when they hit a lure because it's annoying them. Throw a crankbait to the same log 30 times and it'll get annoying enough that the fish finally swipes at it to get it out of his face.

 

The 6th type, as I see it, is the curious bite. If bass had hands, they wouldn't hit lures that they are unsure of. 

 

Fish that get old, have probably been wise all their life. They probably have only been hooked a few times and learned from it, and thus, they are harder to catch.

 

Rarely do you hear about some kid that just hooks a 10 pounder with poor casting skills, poor lure presentation, and close to shore.

5 hours ago, Swamp Girl said:

 or look at a jerkbait and think it's a minnow. 

I disagree with this completely

25 minutes ago, Bazoo said:

I think bass do identify the target some of the time. They might not go
"man look at that Tennesee shad with hooks", but they certainly see a baitfish, and if they want to eat a shad, the color needs to be close.

 

If they are keying on shad and you have a good bite going with a shad crankbait, and you switch to another color, it's possible they might keep hitting it, and possible they will stop. That tells me they are deciding to hit it based on visual cues.

 

There is a range of colors for fish, so some might have more or less blue or chartreuse. So that normally isn't a factor.

 

Now, if you throw a lure of any type and bonk the critter on its head, sure, they swipe at it. That's a different type of fishing where you throw your lure in the bass's home.

 

A third type is when you have a crankbait that bounces off the log that the bass is sitting on. He sees a Tennessee shad with hooks coming, eh... not interested, but let's see what happens. Then that crazy shad bounces off the log and the bass eats it out of reaction to the motion.

 

The 4th type, is a plastic worm or craw when the fish sees it and decides, this is a fat worm, or a fat craw and I sure do want to eat it. Tricking the bass into thinking that the lure is food upon close inspection.

 

The 5th type of bite is when they hit a lure because it's annoying them. Throw a crankbait to the same log 30 times and it'll get annoying enough that the fish finally swipes at it to get it out of his face.

 

The 6th type, as I see it, is the curious bite. If bass had hands, they wouldn't hit lures that they are unsure of. 

 

Fish that get old, have probably been wise all their life. They probably have only been hooked a few times and learned from it, and thus, they are harder to catch.

 

Rarely do you hear about some kid that just hooks a 10 pounder with poor casting skills, poor lure presentation, and close to shore.

 

This kid reminds me of those kids who get courtside seats to an NBA finals game:

 

 

5 minutes ago, Rockhopper said:

I disagree with this completely

 

So, you think bass can't differentiate between a shad and a plastic shad imitation? I've cast to a lot of bass chasing bass in open water with shad imitations and caught nearly none of them. The exception is a school of white bass chasing shad. They'll hit anything. I think I could toss a roll of nickels into the water-churning school and none of the nickels would reach the bottom, but they abandon caution due to competition. 

When it’s calm and the water is clear and bass are well educated - a bass is seeing a 5” Zoom Super Fluke in Tennessee Shad.

 

We gotta identify water and conditions and groups of fish that are less likely to instantly recognize their old nemesis.

I think bass have a pretty simple sorting algorithm. Things that I can eat, things that can eat me and things I don't care about. All we try to do as fisherman is keep our lures in the things I can eat group and away from the don't care group.

 

If a bass saw a mouse swimming in the water for the first time would they eat it? I think the answer is yes even though they don't know what it is. It would be completely alien but it is small and wiggly and therefore should provide nutrients. Eat it.

 

I do think that when there is a lot of a given prey available that bass will narrow their definitions a bit (harder to get into the things I can eat group) but I don't think that we are ever perfectly mimicking a particular creature. We just have to be close enough on a given day.

 

Now maybe the more realistic we present a lure or the more realistic a lure inherently is helps the bass sort better in our favor but for the most part I just want to present an easy meal to the fish. 

As long as they see their way into my net, it's all good.

A-Jay

45 minutes ago, Swamp Girl said:

So, you think bass can't differentiate between a shad and a plastic shad imitation?

 

I may have misunderstood what you were saying.  I thought you were saying that bass see a jerkbait and do not relate that to a baitfish.

 

6 hours ago, Swamp Girl said:

or look at a jerkbait and think it's a minnow

 

It is literally designed to imitate that.  Just like an artificial fly is designed to look like a fly for trout.  They don't see a parachute adams sitting/landing on top of the water and think "oh hey, a floating rock"

I think lures may mimic injured or dying minnows. Most don’t swim like a healthy fish. Erratic movement and floating up or slow sinking has created a ton of strikes. I think Bass see them as wounded and easy food. 
Frog now cause movement and commotion on surface and around pads and vegetation. Bass say” I’ve gotten food at the beginning of that disturbance before” Looks familiar. I’d don’t  know if they say “ that’s a spotted leopard bull frog” or not.

              I want to think are are highly analytical and at least the ones that have out smarted me.

I do think they learn, but how long can retain and process it.

It’s  a mystery  and one I love to keep trying to figure out.
It’s one I like read all the elements and conditions and try and figure out what’s going to trigger a strike.

I guess you can say the bass have taught me from the ones I have caught  and have not caught, how to fish for bass.

 

 

I’ve posted this in the past but I can’t find it now so I’ll summarize my opinions and experiences with this.

 

When I was younger fishing for bass, I very much believed in “match the hatch”. I didn’t like using unrealistic colors or unrealistic baits.

I started to expand my horizons and use colors like black/blue, chartreuse, firetiger and other unrealistic colors. I started catching more fish.

 

One of my favorite presentations was and still is a Texas rig. I used to use Texas rigged craws to mimic craws of course. I would use worms and some others as well. 
 

One bait that really changed everything for me was the zoom brush hog. Everyone seemed to love it, but I couldn’t understand what creature it was imitating. It doesn’t look like any particular animal a bass eats. Why would they bite it?

 

I tried the brush hog and was shocked when I got bit on the first cast. I ended up catching a ton of fish on the brush hog that day. Went through two bags. I loved it. This changed my entire thought process. Instead of thinking that my bait had to look like a known species that bass eat, I realized that a bait just has to look alive or interesting, or elicit a reaction to tempt a bass to bite. 

 

From then on, that’s how I’ve been looking at baits. If it looks like it could be a living creature, even a creature that bass have never seen before in nature, it might work. It doesn’t have to look like something bass eat regularly. 
 

Sorry for the long winded post. I hope this makes sense. 

3 hours ago, woolleyfooley said:

I realized that a bait just has to look alive or interesting, or elicit a reaction to tempt a bass to bite

That’s pretty much how I approach bait selection for bass, aside from conditions.
 

That’s why creature baits work so well and fish don’t condition as easy to them because they look like so many different prey items. I really love beaver baits, you can burn one and they flap and sputter across the surface pretty solid and everybody knows their effectiveness on bottom. I caught a bass the other day on a sweet beaver that I was buzzing in to recast again. It got blasted five feet from shore as it came across some heavy pads in a foot of water. I actually had turned and looked away and simply heard “suck-sploosh” and set the hook on automode. Can’t argue with that lol

Largemouth bass are aggressive predators with big mouths and tummies that need to be filled. 

" Not trying to overwhelm anyone with intellectual superiority " 😁

But what do they think a buzz bait is ripping through the water at 5 mph ❓

 

How many minnows are struggling at the surface with a cartridge full of bb,s ❓

 

How many edibles actually chatter ❓

 

Maybe this hobby is easier than we think, just make a ruckus and they are willing to dine.

6 minutes ago, Bird said:

Maybe this hobby is easier than we think, just make a ruckus and they are willing to dine.

 

You get to the point with a laser pointer. 

I'm going way out on a limb here, but I don't believe the age old written in stone theory about a lure looking like an injured minnow.  Everyone knows a predator fish wants to eat injured or dying prey because they are week, and an easy meal.  That is written in the law book of fishing.  My question to those that can quote the fishing law book word for word, and twice on Sunday. Is why when I fish live bait for predatory fish, do they not hit a bait that is acting wounded or weak?  They only hit the ones that are the most alive and healthy?  There I said it.  Go ahead and kick me out of fishing law school, and never let me into the fisherman's prayer group, but first answer my question. 

6 minutes ago, king fisher said:

They only hit the ones that are the most alive and healthy?  There I said it. 

 

So true. When I bait fished with minnows, leeches, and nightcrawlers, if I put a healthy wiggler on my hook, it didn't last long. As others said, movement and making a ruckus matter.

Hey lure,  stimulate a response for me.  I’ll try but the fish might not respond to what I look like or how I move.  Just do your best and I’ll figure the rest out.

What they see and how/why they react are two different things.

 

I don't think bass think.

 

Cambridge Dictionary:  "to believe something or have an opinion or idea:"

Oh no @king fisher you went and said it out loud….. 

But @Bird made and excellent point as well. Some of the bait we fish with imitates nothing in the wild. I have never seen a 7 1/2 ribbon tail / junebug or bubblegum in color in they wild.

They do produce strikes though… So what are Bass seeing and thinking, when a buzzbait goes burning by

10 hours ago, king fisher said:

I'm going way out on a limb here, but I don't believe the age old written in stone theory about a lure looking like an injured minnow.  Everyone knows a predator fish wants to eat injured or dying prey because they are week, and an easy meal.  That is written in the law book of fishing.  My question to those that can quote the fishing law book word for word, and twice on Sunday. Is why when I fish live bait for predatory fish, do they not hit a bait that is acting wounded or weak?  They only hit the ones that are the most alive and healthy?  There I said it.  Go ahead and kick me out of fishing law school, and never let me into the fisherman's prayer group, but first answer my question. 

 

AGREE!

 

it just ain’t how we (the tackle industry) want it to be mostly!

Predatory Reflex

Good Fishing