What say you guys, will livescope make spotting and potentially catching the next record bass, either LMB or SMB, easier? How and why? 

 

I do not have livescope and don't see much need for it where I fish, but toys are always nice.

From what I’ve seen and used, finding them is easier but estimating size is a lot trickier.  

If it happens , does it deserve and asterisk ?

that Tyler kid found his fish on the screen and casted to it.

 

I'd like to try it once.  but as it stands, I do okay for myself, with my janky gear.  

It's hard to say exactly, but I tend to think that this technology along with everything else in bass  fishing could play a part in the next world record bass.                          In some ways, I hope it doesn't happen that way.                

     All the technology is nothing compared to luck  when it comes to catching the next world record bass.   The next world record could be caught by some kid fishing a bobber and worm, with a Zebco 33 combo rod, no electronics, and lots of luck.  

    As far as numbers of extremely large. bass goes, the latest electronic technology, as well as other advancements in fishing equipment, give the angler a significant edge in the quest for trophy bass.

The next world record if it doesn't come from some Cali lake will come from a smaller private lake/pond that has been built and extensively managed for trophy bass.   Not my YT video or channel, but this video gives a great insight to where the next Alabama state record will come from, and how it will be caught.   To me the asterisk is just likely to come from catching the WR on live bait, or baiting/feeding a particular fish, and then catching it when it's big enough to get the record.  Both things are happening at least in my state.  

 

I think LiveScope makes it more likely to be able to target fish that roam around offshore and are not used to being targeted such as they may be now with FFS (forward facing sonar, including LiveScope). I think they are used to being in those places and not having anyone bother them like they do when they head for the shallows to feed or spawn. This makes them vulnerable. 

 

Eventually, they will likely adapt, but for now, they probably haven't yet done so.

 

As for that world record coming from California, most of the lakes that used to produce fish like that simply don't have them in there anymore. If I had to wager a bet, my money would be on OH Ivie within the next five years, hands down. After that, several years from now, Bois D'Arc looks to be a player if things go the way they are hoping.

32 minutes ago, Big Hands said:

I think LiveScope makes it more likely to be able to target fish that roam around offshore and are not used to being targeted such as they may be now with FFS (forward facing sonar, including LiveScope). I think they are used to being in those places and not having anyone bother them like they do when they head for the shallows to feed or spawn. This makes them vulnerable. 

 

Eventually, they will likely adapt, but for now, they probably haven't yet done so.

 

As for that world record coming from California, most of the lakes that used to produce fish like that simply don't have them in there anymore. If I had to wager a bet, my money would be on OH Ivie within the next five years, hands down. After that, several years from now, Bois D'Arc looks to be a player if things go the way they are hoping.

Now that's very interesting, can you tell me why the Cali lakes aren't the mecca for WR sized Bass anymore, what happened that changed the trajectory of these lakes?  I mean they still get to eat a primary forage that supersizes them.

 

Don't know what OH lvie or Bois D'Arc is, so off to google 

(1)  Trout stocking has been reduced or eliminated.

(2)  Florida strain bass are no longer being stocked.

23 minutes ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

Now that's very interesting, can you tell me why the Cali lakes aren't the mecca for WR sized Bass anymore, what happened that changed the trajectory of these lakes?  I mean they still get to eat a primary forage that supersizes them.

 

Don't know what OH lvie or Bois D'Arc is, so off to google 

Things like breeding with northern (or other) strains from the Florida strain that was planted in several reservoirs, is one factor. In the case of Castaic Lake (where I have lived since 1987), the intrusion of stripers in the early 90's was the beginning of the end for this lake that has produced more top 25 largemouth than any other body of water. 

Trout stocking has been inconsistent, fishing pressure is relatively insane given the size of many of our reservoirs, and the supply of water relative to the demand are also contributing factors. Also, in most California waters, if you want to fish with crawdads or minnows, you have to catch them yourself from the water they will be fished in, and you have to catch them on the day you're going to use them. This was not the case several years ago, so the ease of being able to fish with live bait for world record class bass has been greatly reduced.

6 minutes ago, roadwarrior said:

(1)  Trout stocking has been reduced or eliminated.

(2)  Florida strain bass are no longer being stocked.

In most cases that I know of, the stocking of Florida strains in California reservoirs was a project, not a program. In other words, they stocked them once or for a limited time, and that was it. I could be wrong about this, and maybe someone more knowledgeable will chime in.

3 minutes ago, roadwarrior said:

(1)  Trout stocking has been reduced or eliminated.

(2)  Florida strain bass are no longer being stocked.

Well then that makes perfect sense.    Trout seem to be one of the magical ingredients for producing WR/SR sized Bass.   In that video right above the trophy small lake is a very small holding pond that is stocked with Rainbows.    My guess is that the lake manager then uses the trout to selective stock/feed into the lake.   Why they don't just order/dump a bunch into the lake is the real question I have.     I think they also say they only keep it stocked in winter, and that is Northern Alabama.   Here in central Alabama, you might get a few months where you reliably hold trout in a small pond, but not many.   

 

Extremely fascinating subject, stuff that has always fueled my imagination and curiosity.

4 minutes ago, Big Hands said:

Things like breeding with northern (or other) strains from the Florida strain that was planted in several reservoirs, is one factor. In the case of Castaic Lake (where I have lived since 1987), the intrusion of stripers in the early 90's was the beginning of the end for this lake that has produced more top 25 largemouth than any other body of water. 

Trout stocking has been inconsistent, fishing pressure is relatively insane given the size of many of our reservoirs, and the supply of water relative to the demand are also contributing factors. Also, in most California waters, if you want to fish with crawdads or minnows, you have to catch them yourself from the water they will be fished in, and you have to catch them on the day you're going to use them. This was not the case several years ago, so the ease of being able to fish with live bait for world record class bass has been greatly reduced.

In most cases that I know of, the stocking of Florida strains in California reservoirs was a project, not a program. In other words, they stocked them once or for a limited time, and that was it. I could be wrong about this, and maybe someone more knowledgeable will chime in.

Super informative post!   Thanks.      As a kid in 90s Castaic lake was the magical mythical place I read about in Bass rags, and heard stories from.   I should have figured it would be run over by fisherman if a kid in Alabama dreams of fishing it.

 

Another common thing I keep hearing from western Bass anglers is how Stripers have killed so many once thriving and amazing Bass fisheries.     Following the Lake Mead stuff, and a couple of guides now just show the lowering lake levels, and have said that even before all that the Stripers were killing the Bass reservoir.   

 

Stripers are killing one of Alabama's most treasured Rainbow Trout run ironically enough below a dam.    One thing most folks don't realize is how hard it is to strike a balance in a lake between sunfish, Bass, catfish, stripers, and then forage like threadfins.      Too many Brim, your lake is screwed, too many Catfish, your lake is screwed, etc.   

 

It's hard to re create mother nature.  

The world record largemouth and smallmouth were caught without sonar of any kind.  They didn’t even have trolling motors.  It ain’t about technology.

About a year ago I fished with a boater who had forward scanning sonar and live scope. 

I back then this technology is a game changer and it Is!

It’s always been a mystery where big bass go after the spawn. We know they leave the spawning areas and believe they relocate around the precspawn staging areas and manage to catch a few using big swimbaits.

Live scope clearly shows big bass suspended over deep water outside those staging areas or “in no mans land”.

Suspended bass are tough to catch, big suspended bass are there but tend to ignor lures.

A few anglers using small spy type lures or streamer fly’s catch a few.

As far as a world record size bass being caught by a Live Scope anglers outside the spawn cycle is remote.

Tom

I don’t think they will ever break those records no matter what they use. 

God I hope they catch a record bass using livescope...that way the whining about technology being the work of the devil will never cease.

2 hours ago, Tennessee Boy said:

The world record largemouth and smallmouth were caught without sonar of any kind.  They didn’t even have trolling motors.  It ain’t about technology.

And people also used to do homework by candlelight, but alas, we are not in the 1930s anymore and we have access to these things. The question is, watching folks like Josh Jones become FFS experts and pull giants out of everywhere, does it make it more likely that they can and will be caught?

The history of Florida LMB dates back to 1959 when Orville Ball had pure Florida strain LMB from Cypress Springs shipped reared in ponds now lake Miramar. The San Diego city lakes were stock with pure FLMB  using Upper Otay lake as a holding area, then transferring FLMB into Lower Lower Otay, San Vicente, Sutherland, Wolford, El Capitan. Lake Hodges had all the fished killed off, no Northern strain LMB were present like all the other lakes had. Hodges was planted with Thteadfin shad, crappie, bluegill, channel catfish and pure FLMB. Hodges never had any trout or trout plants and produced a 20 lb 4 oz FLMB.

Larry Bottroff was the San Diego area biologist to monitored anglers catch rates. The goal was increasing catch rates of average larger size bass.The program failed as FLMB are harder to catch then the NLMB, fewer bass were caught per man hour fished. The average size was improved but fewer fish being caught ended the program.

Then in the late 60’s lakes records where FLMB were stocked started to fall as 14lb, 15 lb, 16 lb, started to show up. Then lake Miramar, not in the stocked FLMB program produced a 21 lb 3 oz giant in 1973 apparently from the flooded rearing pond when the lake was filled.

This bass changed everything. Lakes all over California including Castaic and Casitas requested bass from Upper Otay for their lakes. 

One reason for the crash of giant bass in these lakes has to do with no management, the restocking programs and the vigor of the FLMB strain in California is weak now.

Tom

 

12 hours ago, Drew03cmc said:

And people also used to do homework by candlelight, but alas, we are not in the 1930s anymore and we have access to these things. The question is, watching folks like Josh Jones become FFS experts and pull giants out of everywhere, does it make it more likely that they can and will be caught?

I got MEGA Live this spring.  I had zero chance of catching a world record largemouth before I got it and I still have zero chance now because there is not a world record LM in the waters I fish.  I have a slightly better chance of catching the biggest fish in the lake now but not that much.   It also improves other anglers chances that have the technology.  For bigger fish we need technology that helps the bass not the angler.  Our Tennessee state record was recently broken because the TWRA found a better way to hybridize FLMB in Chickamauga.
 

When someone catches a 20+ pound bass it says more about the lake it came from than the angler that caught it or the technology used to catch it.

Well, we have no chance of a World Record largemouth, but  the next WR smallmouth

is a possibility.

 

 

45 minutes ago, roadwarrior said:

Well, we have no chance of a World Record largemouth, but  the next WR smallmouth

is a possibility.

 

 

For your sake, I hope you get her.

Never say never. Dottie was a anomaly as Dixon lake wasn’t and isn’t now a trophy bass lake. It’s the unknown lake with a pure FLMB growing unmolested that makes headlines. 

Numbers of giant bass are in the past ( my past) and more then likely memories. I was blessed to live through the era of FLMB in California.

Will foreword scanning sonar or Live Scope change that? Only if those giants exist.

Tom

5 hours ago, Drew03cmc said:

And people also used to do homework by candlelight, but alas, we are not in the 1930s anymore and we have access to these things. The question is, watching folks like Josh Jones become FFS experts and pull giants out of everywhere, does it make it more likely that they can and will be caught?

Okay so this post got me going down a serious rabbit hole as I had no clue who Josh Jones was, or what he was doing.     Found a news article that even mentions his Garmin Live Scope usage.   After the rabbit hole journey, and reading about Josh Jones, how do you not make the connection that he's using this new tech to seemingly and quite specifically target any lakes biggest bass.   For a non fisherman layman, it sure seems like he basically has the ability to see underwater.    

 

You combine that with the fact that he's likely already a great fisherman with a couple decades on the water, yeah he's using something extremely clever and technologically based to do what he's doing.

 

2 things that really make this clear to me at least....

 

First, when asked why he wasn't a tourney fisherman he gave some answer like too much pressure, and he can make more guiding (second part simply isn't true based on his rate and the days in the year).  If I had some groundbreaking technique using cutting edge tech, I certainly wouldn't be using it in high dollar Bass tourneys that are super scrutinized for cheating, or unfair advantages which this clearly would be if they caught on to it's potential usage.

 

Secondly, he can go to any lake, and seemingly catch the largest Bass in the lake, moreover he catches multiple of the largest Bass in these lakes.    He's seeing them first.  

 

I don't think it's unfair or cheating, he's simply more clever than not only the Bass, but more clever than every other Bass fisherman currently.    I do believe he's been paid to guide big name tourney anglers.    There doesn't seem to be much luck in how he fishes, and that's quite the statement.

Oklahoma angler Josh Jones is the hottest fisherman in the country (oklahoman.com)

 

2 hours ago, WRB said:

Never say never. Dottie was a anomaly as Dixon lake wasn’t and isn’t now a trophy bass lake. It’s the unknown lake with a pure FLMB growing unmolested that makes headlines. 

Numbers of giant bass are in the past ( my past) and more then likely memories. I was blessed to live through the era of FLMB in California.

Will foreword scanning sonar or Live Scope change that? Only if those giants exist.

Tom

So Tom you are of the opinion that 20lb fish aren't nearly as likely to exist as 25, 50, even 100 years ago?

 

With management, smaller purpose built trophy Bass lakes, and just the massive amount of scientific knowledge we know about the Black Bass species in the last half century, hard not to think WRs are gonna be broken in the future, but I yield to vastly more knowledgeable people than myself. 

 

It appears to me that you think this is on a genetic level at this point?  

5 hours ago, WRB said:

The history of Florida LMB dates back to 1959 when Orville Ball had pure Florida strain LMB from Cypress Springs shipped reared in ponds now lake Miramar. The San Diego city lakes were stock with pure FLMB  using Upper Otay lake as a holding area, then transferring FLMB into Lower Lower Otay, San Vicente, Sutherland, Wolford, El Capitan. Lake Hodges had all the fished killed off, no Northern strain LMB were present like all the other lakes had. Hodges was planted with Thteadfin shad, crappie, bluegill, channel catfish and pure FLMB. Hodges never had any trout or trout plants and produced a 20 lb 4 oz FLMB.

Larry Bottroff was the San Diego area biologist to monitored anglers catch rates. The goal was increasing catch rates of average larger size bass.The program failed as FLMB are harder to catch then the NLMB, fewer bass were caught per man hour fished. The average size was improved but fewer fish being caught ended the program.

Then in the late 60’s lakes records where FLMB were stocked started to fall as 14lb, 15 lb, 16 lb, started to show up. Then lake Miramar, not in the stocked FLMB program produced a 21 lb 3 oz giant in 1973 apparently from the flooded rearing pond when the lake was filled.

This bass changed everything. Lakes all over California including Castaic and Casitas requested bass from Upper Otay for their lakes. 

One reason for the crash of giant bass in these lakes has to do with no management, the restocking programs and the vigor of the FLMB strain in California is weak now.

Tom

 

Gem of a post thanks.   What a great thread!

I believe catching a world record bass anywhere in US public water today is a near impossibility.  Fishing pressure is too great and anglers are so much better than they were 100 years ago. California was an anomaly.  It's sad to hear those who fish there say they don't catch big bass there anymore.  Florida still has plenty of ten pound plus bass.  With catch and release, we may have more than we did 50 years ago.  A world record bass needs two things, genetics and a long life.  We have the first thing, not the second.   Rodman has produced many double digit bass.  A 17 pounder was caught in the last ten years.  Rodman is unique because of it's environment and the way it's managed.   Chemical spraying is not allowed, hydrilla is controlled with draw downs.  There are places in Rodman where a bass can go that are unreachable.  You can not easily draw down lakes with residential homes. It took years to get locals to approve the draw down on Lake Griffin and it was a struggle.  Rodman has no private land or homes on it's shoreline.   If there is a world record bass caught, it will be artificially engineered and it will be swimming in a place where it has enough time to grow.  As for Live Scope, I prefer to find my fish the old fashion way.