Alabama bass?

[Further North]

1 hour ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

One of the most common things found by biologists when examining stomach contents are other Bass.   

 

In the Spring, I catch a ton of Bass that puke up half a dozen to dozen Bass fry.  

Yep.

I tie a bass colored Murdich Minnow (in both regular and musky sizes) for fishing around here.  They work well.

[WRB]

2 separate species of Spotted Bass, the Northern or Kentucky and the Southern or Alabama. Like the Northern LMB and the Florida LMB they don’t remain pure species for long when occupying the same ecosystem, they intergrade fast.

Southern Spots, like FLMB, grow nearly 2X in size as pure strains. When they hybridize with other bass species like a Spotted bass and Smallmouth you get a Mean Mouth Bass.

Where are pure strains found anymore, certainly not in California. 

Tom

[gimruis]

I'm with @Tennessee Boy on this one.  Let the fisheries biologist and specialists manage the lakes, rivers, and fish populations in them.  I used to work for the MN DNR and that is what they are there to do.  Anyone can complain about how well or poor they are doing their jobs, but the fact remains is that they are there doing it, and they have more education/experience to do it than the average individual out there.  It's no different than any other field.  I'm certainly not going to tell a cop or firefighter how to do their job either.

 

In terms of invasive species, the DNR takes it extremely serious.  State law says you have to drain any and all water on your watercraft, bait bucket, etc before you leave the access and you cannot drive down the road with the plug in.  You also cannot dispose of unwanted live bait in the water.  These laws aren't anything new, they've been around for almost 10 years.  Everyone I see is good about following them too.  Are we completely stopping the spread of invasive from one lake or river to another?  Surely not.  But at least we're limiting it.  Some lakes have pressure washers and/or decontamination stations, which I use every time when available because it cleans my boat right on the spot rather than having to do it when I get home.

[MN Fisher]

3 minutes ago, gimruis said:

and they have more education/experience to do it than the average individual out there.

When I was majoring in Aquatic Biology - I researched the levels...a Senior Fisheries Biologist had to have at LEAST a Masters In A.B., preferably a PhD, with a side discipline - usually Organic Chem (which was one of my minors). 6-7 years of study in that specific field before they even start making recommendations much less decisions.

[Woody B]

I've been waiting to comment until I took time to watch the video.  I watched it and I have a few comments.

 

 

At least 1/3 of the video was the people making the video talking about themselves.   "Enough about me, what to do you think about me?"   It is a 28 minute video with ~5 minutes of information in it.  

 

I truly believe that moving fish from one body of water to another is a bad idea.   I also don't believe the Alabama/Spotted bass explosion in NC (lake Norman was mentioned in the video) is due to fisherman bringing them to the lake in their livewells.  I strongly believe at some point the state stocked them.    I can't believe a few livewells full of spots can take over a 30,000+ acre lake in a few short years that's already full of Gar, Striped Bass, big Catfish and other predators.   I quit fishing for 30 years until recently.  Back then Lake Norman was a super Largemouth fishery.   I've been told it turned into a dead sea shortly after that.  I believe the State stocked Spots to bring back the bass population.   

 

 

[AlabamaSpothunter]

34 minutes ago, Woody B said:

I've been waiting to comment until I took time to watch the video.  I watched it and I have a few comments.

 

 

At least 1/3 of the video was the people making the video talking about themselves.   "Enough about me, what to do you think about me?"   It is a 28 minute video with ~5 minutes of information in it.  

 

I truly believe that moving fish from one body of water to another is a bad idea.   I also don't believe the Alabama/Spotted bass explosion in NC (lake Norman was mentioned in the video) is due to fisherman bringing them to the lake in their livewells.  I strongly believe at some point the state stocked them.    I can't believe a few livewells full of spots can take over a 30,000+ acre lake in a few short years that's already full of Gar, Striped Bass, big Catfish and other predators.   I quit fishing for 30 years until recently.  Back then Lake Norman was a super Largemouth fishery.   I've been told it turned into a dead sea shortly after that.  I believe the State stocked Spots to bring back the bass population.   

 

 

Wouldn't be the first time that Spotted Bass were specifically stocked by a state agency to improve catch rates.

 

CA DFG did exactly this with Lake Perris:

 

"With the success of the Florida Bass experiment conducted in San Diego beginning in the late 1950s and through the early 1970s, California biologists turned to another bass sub-species for one of their new lakes. This new lake, Lake Perris, would be devoid of cover and have drastic water-level changes over the course of a season, not conducive conditions for rearing largemouth. Because of this, the DFG looked to the Alabama spotted bass to fill a niche."

 

-Big Bass Podcast  

[Further North]

6 hours ago, gimruis said:

Let the fisheries biologist and specialists manage the lakes, rivers, and fish populations in them.

I agree with this.

To a point.

That "management" is too often influenced by special interest groups.

Those groups include, in no particular order:

• Farmers
• Business
• Politicians with agendas
• Species specific fishing focused groups, like:
  • Walleyes
  • Bass
  • Musky
  • Trout
  • Salmon
  • Panfish, usually in the form of...
• Ice anglers
• Tourist industry influenced (think lodges and campgrounds) groups.

The decisions are often heavily influenced by groups that have their own self interests foremost, and not the health of the ecosystem.

I serve on our local CORE group, and people would be amazed at how much influence a snowmobiling group, ATV group, or even an off-road bike group can have on a proposal for a trout stream...

[Kyhokie]

On 9/25/2023 at 9:58 PM, TnRiver46 said:

Good way to make a big pile of money . Donate today to fight the spread 

 

I for one am not concerned in the least 

It’s obvious you don’t live on Lake Norman. when these fish get in your waters, they breed out the smallmouth and outcompete the largemouth. I’m not sure if that’s what the video was talking about but that’s what happens. These fish don’t get as big as largemouth either so yes, you might go out and catch 30 of them but they’re all two pounders.

On 9/26/2023 at 10:01 AM, TnRiver46 said:

@Tennessee BoyIf we are paying someone to manage the river, I want my money back. I didn’t stock any fish I eat them. Like someone posted above, pandora is out the box. Rules don’t matter

 

no one stocks more invasive species than DNR. They don’t care about anything except getting money from your pocket to theirs 

That’s probably the most ignorant thing I’ve ever read on this site

On 9/26/2023 at 10:55 AM, TnRiver46 said:

Wonder why nobody in California is worried about these fish? They seem to love them out there 

Because they get to be 10 pounds in California. They’re a true sport fish there. I’ve never caught one larger than 3 1/2 pounds in North Carolina. 

@TnRiver46 No one‘s out to get you. There’s no grand conspiracy to get a bunch of donations to stop this fish. It’s not that deep bro. All they’re saying is the spots are not good. Even if you don’t care about largemouth because they don’t interbreed with spots, the Alabama spot will eradicate the smallmouth in North Carolina and more than likely Virginia and eventually Tennessee. It’s just science. Spots breed with smallmouth and smallmouth are bred out of native streams and rivers.

[TnRiver46]

45 minutes ago, Kyhokie said:

It’s obvious you don’t live on Lake Norman. when these fish get in your waters, they breed out the smallmouth and outcompete the largemouth. I’m not sure if that’s what the video was talking about but that’s what happens. These fish don’t get as big as largemouth either so yes, you might go out and catch 30 of them but they’re all two pounders.

That’s probably the most ignorant thing I’ve ever read on this site

Because they get to be 10 pounds in California. They’re a true sport fish there. I’ve never caught one larger than 3 1/2 pounds in North Carolina. 

@TnRiver46 No one‘s out to get you. There’s no grand conspiracy to get a bunch of donations to stop this fish. It’s not that deep bro. All they’re saying is the spots are not good. Even if you don’t care about largemouth because they don’t interbreed with spots, the Alabama spot will eradicate the smallmouth in North Carolina and more than likely Virginia and eventually Tennessee. It’s just science. Spots breed with smallmouth and smallmouth are bred out of native streams and rivers.

That might happen but I’ll go ahead and bet against it. They’ve been here a long time especially nickajack. I think it’s ignorant to assume that what happened in lake Norman will automatically happen everywhere else. Also Alabama bass get bout 7 lbs in parksville lake , that’s more than 3 

 

Believe me, I’ve probably killed more spotted bass than anyone except @GreenPig. It’s not that I’m rooting for the spread , just not concerned in the least. Because there’s no reason to be

[Kyhokie]

@TnRiver46 once again incorrect. The Alabama Coosa spotted bass has not been in the nickajack system for as long as the Catawba river Lake Norman system. The smallmouth and Kentucky spots in Nicajack are living on borrowed time. They will eventually outcompete largemouth, but that doesn’t concern me, because largemouth will still exist. It’s the fact that they can interbreed with smallmouth and other types of spots and riverine black bass species that is concerning. 

https://www.bassmaster.com/conservation-news/news/alabama-bass-invasion/
 

this is a pretty good explanation 

[MIbassyaker]

11 hours ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

One of the most common things found by biologists when examining stomach contents are other Bass.   

 

In the Spring, I catch a ton of Bass that puke up half a dozen to dozen Bass fry.  

 

I humbly submit my entry for homemade "baby bass vibrating jig"

 

EDIT: sorry, I see this is a serious discussion...let me read the antecedent arguments and then maybe I will have a relevant opinion .... Carry on.......

[TnRiver46]

 

?. Give me a break ! 

[Pat Brown]

Solution: feed baby LMB spotted bass fry at the hatcheries ?

 

Start em young.  Give em a taste.

[Woody B]

10 hours ago, Kyhokie said:

Even if you don’t care about largemouth because they don’t interbreed with spots,

 

Not looking to argue, not intending that tone with this post.  Although not as common as interbreeding with Smallmouth, Largemouth and Spots will interbreed.   A few years ago a man caught what he thought was a new NC record Alabama/Spotted Bass.  (in Lake Norman)  For NC to certify a record a biologist has to examine the fish.  According to the biologist this bass came from a Largemouth mom and a Spot dad.   

 

At this point there's nothing we can do about the Spots.  I'll admit it's fun to catch a BUNCH of bass but I haven't heard of a DD bass from the Catawba river chain in years.   My biggest since I started back fishing a couple years ago is 7 pounds 13 ounces.   (in Lake Wylie)  I have caught a few spots over 4 pounds.  (biggest 4 pounds 15 ounces)  They're fun but it's disappointing knowing that's pretty much the top end weight wise.   

 

Can anyone confirm that Lake Norman was basically the dead sea in the late 90's early 2000's?

[TnRiver46]

Well , since every lake in America isn’t lake Norman, let’s take a look at Toledo bend. It’s loaded with spots and produced 125 double digit LM bass last spring. And that’s just the ones reported 

[Pat Brown]

35 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

Well , since every lake in America isn’t lake Norman, let’s take a look at Toledo bend. It’s loaded with spots and produced 125 double digit LM bass last spring. And that’s just the ones reported 

 

 

Also also also: just because people aren't catching double digit bass in lake Norman doesn't mean they aren't there and even a good number.

 

I fish at a pond 'thats been fished out and is dead.' that's loaded with 6+ lbers.  They're just not stupid.

[TnRiver46]

1 hour ago, Pat Brown said:

 

 

Also also also: just because people aren't catching double digit bass in lake Norman doesn't mean they aren't there and even a good number.

 

I fish at a pond 'thats been fished out and is dead.' that's loaded with 6+ lbers.  They're just not stupid.

They gotta blame something other than themselves 

[Buzzbaiter]

14 hours ago, Kyhokie said:

It’s the fact that they can interbreed with smallmouth and other types of spots and riverine black bass species

My thoughts exactly. To be honest, I’m not super concerned about what these fish do in manmade reservoirs.  Smallmouth and largemouth are not particularly unique fish, and there’s plenty of them around. Moreover, they were stocked in these reservoirs for sport. Yes, Alabama bass would probably hurt the sport fishing (and other local industries affected by it), but worse fishing at a particular impoundment is not the end of the world.

 

What worries me are the riverine bass species that are already challenged by land use changes. As I understand it, Chattahoochee bass and, to a lesser extent, shoal bass, as well as a number of other upland bass species are becoming increasingly difficult to catch now that the Alabamas have started hybridizing with them. Many of the riverine basses already have limited ranges; it’s not inconceivable to think that, without intervention, some lesser bass species could go endangered or even extinct.

[Buzzbaiter]

3 hours ago, TnRiver46 said:

Well , since every lake in America isn’t lake Norman, let’s take a look at Toledo bend. It’s loaded with spots and produced 125 double digit LM bass last spring. And that’s just the ones reported 

Are these “spots” actual spotted bass, or Alabama bass? I haven’t been able to find a source that describes what exact species the Toledo Bend “spots” are. Whether those fish are spotted bass, Alabama bass, or a mix of both will affect how they interact with the largemouth. Spotted bass and northern largemouth evolved alongside each other, so they should be able to coexist. Largemouth and Alabamas share little native range, so the combination of the two species in a single system would be a lot more volatile.

[TnRiver46]

1 minute ago, Buzzbaiter said:

Are these “spots” actual spotted bass, or Alabama bass? I haven’t been able to find a source that describes what exact species the Toledo Bend “spots” are. Whether those fish are spotted bass, Alabama bass, or a mix of both will affect how they interact with the largemouth. Spotted bass and northern largemouth evolved alongside each other, so they should be able to coexist. Largemouth and Alabamas share little native range, so the combination of the two species in a single system would be a lot more volatile.

I doubt they are KY spots 

[Chris Catignani]

Just got back from 4 days on Neely Henry...
Seems like the Large jaws and Bama bass co-habitat there alright.

That being said...I want to say that Alabama bass are the meanest, hard-hitting, fighting and just plain psyco bass that exist.

I dare you to try and lip one with a crank bait in his mouth.

 

[WRB]

Lake Perris California produced a World Record Alabama Spotted bass at 9.04 lbs. Today the Spotted bass are gone from Perris only Largemouth Bass.

The Largemouth Bass didn’t displace the Alabama bass at Perris nor did the Alabama take over Perris. What happened?

Florida strain of Bluegill obliterated the Alabama Spotted bass spawn and fry.

Tom

[TnRiver46]

10 hours ago, Chris Catignani said:

 

I dare you to try and lip one with a crank bait in his mouth.

 

[Team9nine]

On 10/2/2023 at 6:15 AM, Woody B said:

Can anyone confirm that Lake Norman was basically the dead sea in the late 90's early 2000's?

Pretty much through all of the 1990s, with a few added years on either end. Peter T won a Bassmaster event there in 1994 with a 4 day total of just over 23 pounds, which is just one tiny step above “Ohio River” level badness ? Bassmaster didn’t return to the lake for a good 10 years because of that pitiful showing.

[Pat Brown]

21 hours ago, Team9nine said:

Pretty much through all of the 1990s, with a few added years on either end. Peter T won a Bassmaster event there in 1994 with a 4 day total of just over 23 pounds, which is just one tiny step above “Ohio River” level badness ? Bassmaster didn’t return to the lake for a good 10 years because of that pitiful showing.

 

 

I have some opinions on this I might be able to offer based on my experience fishing North Carolina the past few years.

 

I think anglers in NC think of NC a muddy TVA river system type state and you CAN find water like that on some parts of some lakes but in actuality, the water here is a lot clearer than people think it is.

 

I think bass fishing culture in the 90s was heavily geared towards power fishing and lots of stained water techniques popularized in places like Florida and Texas.

 

You can definitely still catch bass power fishing in NC, but if you start to pretend you're fishing clear lake in CA or something to that effect and adjust your presentation, you'll actually do much better in general.

 

I think NC is a lot like a clear water Western US state in terms of fisheries that identifies as a mud puddle but actually isn't.

 

The fish benefit tremendously from this confusion and we fish over a lot of fish every year fishing dirty water techniques when all along it should be treated more like clear water.

 

Just my 0.02 

 

I know there is muddy water you can catch bass out of in NC, but that's not how I'd characterize the majority of our reservoirs here at all.