6 minutes ago, Tennessee Boy said:

 I don't think cloud cover matters at dusk and dawn.  

 

My only minor quibble with that statement is that I find cloud cover will extend the dusk/dawn period longer.  A morning pre-sunrise bite will keep going longer into the morning if it is cloudy.  On the days where it is crystal clear and the sun pops over the horizon I find the fish just about immediately change.  This is probably because I'm targeting shallow water fish in the dark.  When it is cloudy, they stick around a little longer.  Similar on the end of the day.  Sunny days hold the fish in their daytime pattern until well after sunset.  I've found that it takes a solid half hour to an hour after sunset on a sunny day before the fish pull up shallow or move to the edge of cover.  On the cloudy days, they will do that even before sunset since the sun is already obscured.

 

6 minutes ago, Tennessee Boy said:

 

All I can say is you have to fish the conditions that are given to you or go home.

 

This is where I've come to.  I always thought that sunny days were always going to be hard days.  The fish don't bite as well when its sunny.  Then you watch the pro's hammer on them during sunny days.  And then you have some sunny days on the water where YOU catch a bunch of fish.  And then you realize that sometimes sunny days are hard days, but also sometimes cloudy days are hard days too.  So go fishing every time you get a day available and figure out what the thing is.

7 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

Humans will never accept this fact, but it is indeed a fact. Science and data don’t tell you jack when it comes to capturing a fish with rod and reel 

 

I think data and science deliver value, but they are limited by the complexity of the environment. Water holding bass subjected to the vagaries of weather is akin to a human body in a hospital where the doctors might have a poly-syllabic diagnosis, but no healing power or plan. Because I've been fishing the same two ponds, I'm able to note the continuous changes. I've seen whole weed beds seemingly disappear in a few days, but even when they remain, they keep looking different...and that's just weeds...and what I can see. 

 

However, I like looking for bass.

My personal opinion is that on cloudy days the bass are more likely to be roaming. On Sunny days I think that you're more likely to find a bass just sitting under cover or near structure.

 

But when the water is hot and it's sunny out, I have found the bass tend to be deeper and make a hit and run quickly to the shore to feed on baitfish.

It may depend more on what prey is available, and what the bass are hunting.  When I still hunt for whitetail deer, cloudy rainy days are best.  The low light, and wet ground make it easier for me to be quite and get close to the deer.  When I am glassing for mule deer in open country, clear skies make for better use of optics.  The bass are the best hunters in their environment.  They will use clouds, or clear skies to their advantage.  They have to eat, and will not go hungry.  They can't hunt down and eat your worm if you are not on the water.  

4 minutes ago, king fisher said:

It may depend more on what prey is available, and what the bass are hunting.  When I still hunt for whitetail deer, cloudy rainy days are best.  The low light, and wet ground make it easier for me to be quite and get close to the deer.  When I am glassing for mule deer in open country, clear skies make for better use of optics.  The bass are the best hunters in their environment.  They will use clouds, or clear skies to their advantage.  They have to eat, and will not go hungry.  They can't hunt down and eat your worm if you are not on the water.  

 

Glad you used hunting examples.  Because we know you get skunked on cloudy days the same as you get skunked on sunny ones. 

12 minutes ago, casts_by_fly said:

 

Glad you used hunting examples.  Because we know you get skunked on cloudy days the same as you get skunked on sunny ones. 

I even get skunked on partly cloudy days as well as partly sunny days.

1 hour ago, TnRiver46 said:

Humans will never accept this fact, but it is indeed a fact. Science and data don’t tell you jack when it comes to capturing a fish with rod and reel 

I guess I’m human because I will never accept that.  If I go fishing and I catch 5 fish on a red worm and 2 fish on a blue worm, that’s data.  Does that prove a red worm is better,  no that’s a common misinterpretation of data but the data still tells me something.  
 

Josh Alwine’s data are statistics about capturing a fish with a rod so it should tell us something about the subject.  I am little skeptical of it since he doesn’t tell us much about the source of the data.  I absolutely do not think it proves fishing is better when the sun is shining.  It is however some evidence that suggests that might be the case and sways my opinion on the subject a little.  It’s much more persuasive than an old guy at the ramp who says they never bite around here on a sunny day.

7 hours ago, Swamp Girl said:

 

I too can't crack the code. The bass are always moving and I don't know why or where they're going. I just know that my task is to find them. Some bass pundits remind me of stock market pundits, always explaining with surety after the fact. You know when the market goes up or down and pundits explain why? Well, if they really know what moves the market up and down, wouldn't they be trillionaires? Same with bass. If there was a person who truly understood why bass move and where they go, wouldn't they be KVD times ten? I'm not talking about general patterns. I think they do apply. I'm talking about being certain about why and where bass move.* Like you, Daubs, I try to launch and enjoy myself. If I see an old tractor glowing on the shore, I photograph it:

 

 

Me too. Plus, gray mornings are beautiful. It's a beauty that too many people miss.

 

* You guys know I catch a lot of bass, so I have access to more personal data than many anglers, but with all my data, in the end, if you were in my canoe and you asked me, "Where are the bass?", I'd have to admit, "I dunno. Let's try over there." And if we didn't catch any bass "over there," I'd suggest, "Let's try over there." And so on. And you might think, "Swampy's an idiot angler. She's just bungling into bass." Yep.

 

^^ this is GOLD! ^^

 

Outstanding@Swamp Girl!!

 

About 30 years ago, when living in northeast Missouri, a friend let me fish his family farm pond. It was maybe an acre total...so about as big as a football field. It was FULL of 8-10" LMB's. They hit on pretty much anything I threw at them. It was really fun...for a while. 

 

Found myself yearning to hit the bigger city reservoir, and chase larger bass.  

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Kayak Koz said:

My personal opinion is that on cloudy days the bass are more likely to be roaming. On Sunny days I think that you're more likely to find a bass just sitting under cover or near structure.

 

But when the water is hot and it's sunny out, I have found the bass tend to be deeper and make a hit and run quickly to the shore to feed on baitfish.

 

exactly!  It’s a good day for fishing during all conditions - that’s part of the fun of the whole thing is figuring that out!  Sure clouds might mean a certain group of fish in a certain area on the lake stop biting but it don’t mean it’s not firing up a different group of fish on a different section of the lake.  Knowing how to capitalize on these changes and adapt your presentation might just be the actual skill that is bass fishing!

Cloudy weather indicates a low pressure system is overhead and most of the predators in ecosystems are active do in part to lower light levels. Lower light helps to reduce the basses ability to see lures or line easily and make more mistakes strikes lures in lieu or live prey.

LMB tend to roam and hunt larger areas under lower light conditions, Smallmouth roam and hunt under good light or low light conditions.

What changes odds is the bed fish during the spawn. Bed fish are not hunting prey, they are protecting their nest area and far easier for anglers to see with bright clear sky and calm water surface.  Low light makes it difficult to see a bed fish.

Tom

3 hours ago, Tennessee Boy said:

I guess I’m human because I will never accept that.

Seent it right off 🤣 

11 minutes ago, DaubsNU1 said:

Outstanding@Swamp Girl!!

 

Thanks, Daubs. Even when I launch and catch 40 bass, I don't think that I broke the code on that trip. I don't know if I could have caught 50/60/70 with different lures in different places with different retrieves. And if I catch 40 bass, I can't even say why those bass hit, what motivated them to hit my lure(s), and why some mornings I can only catch 10. Sure, the generalities apply, such as they're striking in May, but generalities only explain general patterns, not why I'll catch two dozen in Pond weed one morning and only two the next morning in the same weed, even when the two mornings feel like clones. There are more factors in play than I can untangle. Bass fishing is a backlash the size of a city bus, so rather than pretend I can untangle it, I enjoy being on the water and tussling with bass and sometimes descrying a fleeting pattern...perhaps.

Overcast for me all the way.

An interesting discussion, thanks all for sharing.

I plan on fishing tomorrow for the first time since May. Its going to be sunny. I'll be taking the Lowe to Mark Twain lake. A lake that is tough   to crack this time of year but my cousin and I won a 500 boat tournament there in 1986 during September. We were catching deep bass but those spots have all been discovered and no longer produce much.With the sunny skies tomorrow I may end up chasing white bass. A cloudy day would make it much easier to catch bass shallow. 

Another interpretation could be that  Alwine’s sunny day bait is better under the sun than his cloudy day bait is under clouds.  

25 minutes ago, OldManLure said:

Another interpretation could be that  Alwine’s sunny day bait is better under the sun than his cloudy day bait is under clouds.  

It wasn't Alwine's bait. His data came from other anglers.

You fish when can and you can’t control the conditions. You can only adapt. I don’t get caught up in it. I do agree with Pat.

7 hours ago, TnRiver46 said:

Humans will never accept this fact, but it is indeed a fact. Science and data don’t tell you jack when it comes to capturing a fish with rod and reel 

100% agree. I've had lots of terrible days when they "should" be biting, and lots of awesome days when they "shouldn't" over the years. I caught 6 muskie last Monday, and lost three more in sunny, calm conditions with a light E wind, in clear water. Fishing "SHOULD" have sucked.

 Go fishing when you can, start how you think you should, if that ain't working, try something else. With time and experience you'll be successful more often.There is NO substitute for time on the water. 

Sunny days on weedy lakes is stellar. The brighter the light the more dissolved oxygen.

I'm kind of new to all of this again but that was my experience this summer on my local hole

30 minutes ago, T-Billy said:

100% agree. I've had lots of terrible days when they "should" be biting, and lots of awesome days when they "shouldn't" over the years. I caught 6 muskie last Monday, and lost three more in sunny, calm conditions with a light E wind, in clear water. Fishing "SHOULD" have sucked.

 Go fishing when you can, start how you think you should, if that ain't working, try something else. With time and experience you'll be successful more often.There is NO substitute for time on the water. 

I think that each species reacts differently to all of the variables.

 

I don't see any correlation to bluegill behavor and bass behavior for example. They both do what they do, regardless of the conditions of that affect the other.

3 hours ago, Bazoo said:

I think that each species reacts differently to all of the variables

I think each individual reacts differently to all the variables 

If each individual acts differently, no wonder I struggle to crack the code.

55 minutes ago, Swamp Girl said:

If each individual acts differently, no wonder I struggle to crack the code.

I think you crack the code daily, but why wouldn’t each individual act differently? That’s what makes them individuals, not robots 

Hmmm... I just read this thread to catch up. Lots of back and forth on this one.

 

I have studied bass for more than 55 years from my first contact with them back in 1968/69 era.

 

In Florida our environment is different from much of the rest of the country. We don't have a whole lot of really deep lakes except in north Florida they are more common- with being 40 feet or less, but in central and South Florida, this state is basically one big sandbar and so a lot of the lakes I fish there are all very shallow. Dishpan lakes. And when I say shallow I mean like 10 or 12 feet deep for most of the lake or less. I usually fish in 8 feet or less.

 

And with clear water in most of those lakes one thing I have noticed over the years is that the bass tend to avoid the direct overhead bright sunlight especially in the shallows. You can troll through shallow clear water with sun directly overhead and not see one single fish anywhere.

 

I attribute this to bass not having any eyelids and so they don't like bright sun in their eyes any more than we do and I have long thought bass run from it. Tend to go into the shade, cover, and deeper to get away from it.

 

They may also instinctively know that bright sunlight makes them more visible to predators too and may avoid placing themselves in danger because of it.

 

Doug Hannon said the biggest bass are usually caught during the direct overhead sunlight in the hours of 1 to 2pm on average as the time of day those largest bass are caught.

 

So I am wondering if maybe those biggest bass instinctively KNOW the prey they seek for food is also most vulnerable at brightest sunlight and they use this time period to feed on what is most exposed?

 

And this brings into play that not all bass behave the same way. Age and size plays a huge role in how bass behave. I have not seen this issue brought up yet.

 

The larger bass tend to stay deep while younger smaller bass tend to go more shallow and stay closer to shore and cover and food sources.

 

The big bass who hang deep may use the bright sunlight to help increase their chances of finding quick and easy food. Rise up from the depths and go to the nearest shallow water with cover as Denny Brauer always taught. He said one could eliminate 90% of a lake by simply observing this one thing. That is IF you are only after those largest bass. It may not apply to smaller bass.

 

Cracking the code here in Florida may be different than other states, but I would bet some of the same rules apply elsewhere.

 

What bass are you targeting? Only the big ones, or smaller bass? They each behave differently based on age and size I do believe. And this has to be considered I think for successful fishing trips.

 

That said, I also prefer overcast. Here in Florida our sun can be brutal. So I have avoided it from about 11am to 4pm. I won't fish during those hours. My fishing choices are purely based around sunlight first and foremost and I will only go out fishing in early morning or later in afternoon and then head to shade until the sun goes down some. Just how it is.

 

I have noticed in Florida that the bass seem to come out of the shade and begin to move around more as the light diminishes or clouds up. I say bass meaning not the monsters lurking in the deep. I don't target those at all. I gave up chasing only those decades ago. Today I am purely quantity over quality. If a big one bites then fine. But I am not looking for them. I am looking for more fish in an outing than targeting the big one and not getting one while missing all those smaller bass. Now I just go after the more active smaller bass and ignore the largest bass. I'm out to have fun. Not win tournaments and put a lunker on the wall type of thing.

 

Here in Florida as the sun goes down the fish get more active right until dark and then it seems to just shut off. So for me and irrelevant Florida, bright sunlight is to be avoided, lower light is better, overcast is better, rain clouds are better. That's how the code is stacking up for me around here.