Daiwa is simply smoother than Shimano now

[ABU is overpriced]

As someone who has been using both (more daiwas than Shimanos), i've noticed something in the last five or so years. Back in the 2000s and 2010s, you had a few reels from Daiwa that were universally considered as super smooth. Those reels were the OG Zillion, PX68/SPR, and the Z2020 to name a couple, but in general, most Daiwa reels were considered as "more connected"/"more geary" than almost everything offered by Shimano. Be it the Curado E, Chronarch D, any of the Conquest reels, any of the calais/anteres, any older metaniums, etc. Shimano was the "buttery smooth" retreive reels while daiwa, in most cases, couldn't get to its smoothness, especially when some resistance is applied on the line.

This has changed in 2016 when the Steez TW came out with that new style of gearing cut that was introduced into the Daiwa lineup. Since barely any reels back then used the "bigger teeth" style of gearing, 2016 was still a win for Shimano i'd say. But when the Steez CT, and then the Alphas, Zillion, etc were released, this is where i feel like Daiwa has completely won the Smoothest Reel award. 

The conquest and the anteres line are super smooth, and can easily compete with Daiwa smoothest reels around, but literally nothing else from Shimano can (in my opinion, obviously). The bantams, the metaniums, the aldebarans, the scorpions, they all have this raspy vibration, while even a $150 Alphas feels like glass, with or without tension on the line. My best guess is that this new gearing Daiwa uses is a real game changer, and its what deserves most praise from the company, not t-wing, or some other gimmick like SV Boost.

Do you agree, or disagree?

[Maverick2017]

Disagree.

 

I’ve had USDM 21’ Zillions, JDM Zillions, and JDM Steez….all were not as smooth as my Shimano’s (Metaniums and Bantams).

 

In fact, every single one of my Daiwa’s have been sold off. Nothing trumps a Shimano for me. 

[NorthernBasser]

And here...we...go!

 

[ABU is overpriced]

1 hour ago, Maverick2017 said:

Disagree.

 

I’ve had USDM 21’ Zillions, JDM Zillions, and JDM Steez….all were not as smooth as my Shimano’s (Metaniums and Bantams).

 

In fact, every single one of my Daiwa’s have been sold off. Nothing trumps a Shimano for me. 

Did you buy all your Daiwas used, in super worn condition, or something? There is no chance that you could use a zillion, jdm or not, and say that a Metanium is smoother. I've had every metanium made (excluding the ones that were made on older platforms than the chronarch d) and the 24 Met DC, and its not even close. They're not rough, but you feel the raspiness, and they're not glassy like all the steezes, zillion, alphas, the new ss air, etc. Feels to me that you've added the "all my daiwas sold off" just to add some weight to your argument, and in reality, you never even had em lol.

[Columbia Craw]

Boys!!Stop this. Wait till your dad gets home.

[rangerjockey]

4 hours ago, ABU is overpriced said:

Did you buy all your Daiwas used, in super worn condition, or something? There is no chance that you could use a zillion, jdm or not, and say that a Metanium is smoother. I've had every metanium made (excluding the ones that were made on older platforms than the chronarch d) and the 24 Met DC, and its not even close. They're not rough, but you feel the raspiness, and they're not glassy like all the steezes, zillion, alphas, the new ss air, etc. Feels to me that you've added the "all my daiwas sold off" just to add some weight to your argument, and in reality, you never even had em lol.

So, what makes your opinion carry more weight than anyone else's ?

Your just looking for a pizzin' match. It's like golf clubs, you can have the most expensive forged in Japan on a Thursday before lunch irons and still not be able to break an egg.

[new2BC4bass]

I have a tendency not to notice the little things....smoothness being one of them.  However, the first cast I made with a used Alphas ito 103Ai had me saying to myself, "This reel is so smooth it's like snot on ice."

 

I've no experience with the expensive Shimanos.  I do have a newer Zillion SV TW 1000L, but only had it out once (with another new reel).  I was getting the reels dialed in and comparing casting distances.  Afraid this was a case of not noticing the little things as I don't remember having a thought about smoothness. 

 

I'm satisfied as long as the handle turns smoothly with no stops or jerkiness.

 

[Bigbox99]

The hyper drive gears are freakishly smooth.  

[ABU is overpriced]

1 hour ago, rangerjockey said:

So, what makes your opinion carry more weight than anyone else's ?

Your just looking for a pizzin' match. It's like golf clubs, you can have the most expensive forged in Japan on a Thursday before lunch irons and still not be able to break an egg.

Nothing, its opinion against opinion. But, to anybody that has tried a newish daiwa reel with their new large teeth gear cut, has most likely noticed the glassy smoothness and the longevity of the gear set itself. These reels have been around for long enough that i would assume most have at least tried them. I also believe that if there was a way to measure smoothness (i believe i've seen a Japanese guy that had a tool that measured vibration felt through the knobs), daiwa would easily win against shimano, and the only two reels that could compete is the anteres and the conquest.

[garroyo130]

... and as everyone knows, smoother = bigger fish

[ABU is overpriced]

1 minute ago, garroyo130 said:

... and as everyone knows, smoother = bigger fish

The same sarcasm could be applied to expensive reels, but we all have em😱

[FishTank]

Own several of both and.... 

 

[FrnkNsteen]

I will say that the newer Daiwa I have are noticeably smoother than they have been in the past. I hadn't really thought about why, but my Zillion SV, Alphas 800,... Even my Tatula SV70 and new Tatula 100 seem smoother as a rule than my older models (Tat CT Type R's, Tat 100, Tat SV, older TD reels). 

 

Can I say that they are smoother than newer Shimanos? I don't know that I could make that general of a statement, but I will say the difference isn't as big as it used to be.

 

My recent newer Shimano models are limited to SLX, SLX MGL, various Curado MGL (151 & 71) and Bantam MGL.

[Maverick2017]

8 hours ago, ABU is overpriced said:

Did you buy all your Daiwas used, in super worn condition, or something? There is no chance that you could use a zillion, jdm or not, and say that a Metanium is smoother. I've had every metanium made (excluding the ones that were made on older platforms than the chronarch d) and the 24 Met DC, and its not even close. They're not rough, but you feel the raspiness, and they're not glassy like all the steezes, zillion, alphas, the new ss air, etc. Feels to me that you've added the "all my daiwas sold off" just to add some weight to your argument, and in reality, you never even had em lol.

This post reeks of someone who can’t even comprehend their own posed logic. You asked for thoughts, thoughts were provided. If you can’t handle differing opinions, don’t ask. 

 

P.S. Mom is calling you up for dinner, son.

 

[OkobojiEagle]

5 hours ago, new2BC4bass said:

 is so smooth it's like snot on ice."

 

Snot will freeze during icy conditions, where as, snot on an exterior door knob during a hot July afternoon is much smoother.

[Fishingmickey]

Hi Abu,

    I think you prefer trolling, not just as a fishing method. I have both ( Met's, Bantam's, Zillions and Alpha's of recent vintaqe) and they are all stellar reels.

FM

[newapti5]

Can I add Abu reels into the mix? I like chaos.

It's quite an accomplishment for my Abu Revo ALX to be this level of smoothness after several years of usage, and its pinion gear isn't even double supported. It gets me to rethink how much gears contribute to the general smoothness of a whole reel. Sometimes, it's just the bearings. SS bearings triumph over ceramic hybrid bearings on smoothness. 

[Randy Price]

I think ABU does like to troll.  Look at some of his other posts wanting to pit Daiwa against Shimano.

[ABU is overpriced]

3 hours ago, Maverick2017 said:

This post reeks of someone who can’t even comprehend their own posed logic. You asked for thoughts, thoughts were provided. If you can’t handle differing opinions, don’t ask. 

 

P.S. Mom is calling you up for dinner, son.

 

Yes, but when you add "i got rid of all of my X because of Y", that's nothing but adding fake weight to your argument, just to make it sound like the other brand is so far inferior that its not worth anybodies time. If he had one daiwa, and got rid of it, that's perfectly fine, but if he had ten or more, and you sold em at a bargain because "Shimano is better", he wouldn't have bought them to begin with if this was the case.

1 hour ago, Randy Price said:

I think ABU does like to troll.  Look at some of his other posts wanting to pit Daiwa against Shimano.

Literally the two biggest brands. You don't need to pit anything. They're in direct competition trying to out-do each other.

2 hours ago, newapti5 said:

Can I add Abu reels into the mix? I like chaos.

It's quite an accomplishment for my Abu Revo ALX to be this level of smoothness after several years of usage, and its pinion gear isn't even double supported. It gets me to rethink how much gears contribute to the general smoothness of a whole reel. Sometimes, it's just the bearings. SS bearings triumph over ceramic hybrid bearings on smoothness. 

As far as i remember, and i only had gen 2 and gen 3 revos, their gear sets are pretty big, so the wear on them being slow does make sense.

[F14A-B]

Well now it’s morphed into which is smoother when at the onset of discussion it was more about gear longevity. Micro module. I look at it like this, anything new, a new technology or new engineering typically reveals weaknesses in the early days of release, this tech isn’t new now and I know Shimano well enough to know they make running changes without any fanfare. I’ve bought 6 new Shimano reels, this year, Bantams, Metanium and Vanguard’s and FM’s. So 10 new reels in total. They are all excellent reels that have 1,000’s of casts on them now, (Baitcasters) The smoothness is still there.. but if they begin to fail me tomorrow and it’s gear design.. then I wouldn’t hesitate to spring to Daiwa. I don’t own a single daiwa reel. I tried one (this spring) with the sv spool and took it back to BPS quickly. The SV spool sucked imo, the reel was noisy the gearing wasn’t bad but it ain’t Shimano smooth. Shimanos are also very quiet. Not completely silent but very close ..

It's my choice, and for now, and the last 18 years it’s Shimano. I would add that the OG TDZ along with the OG Zillions are still my personal all time favorite Baitcasters… they were incredible reels. 

[MediumMouthBass]

18 hours ago, Maverick2017 said:

Disagree.

 

I’ve had USDM 21’ Zillions, JDM Zillions, and JDM Steez….all were not as smooth as my Shimano’s (Metaniums and Bantams).

 

In fact, every single one of my Daiwa’s have been sold off. Nothing trumps a Shimano for me. 

I used to love Daiwa, it was my favorite rod and reel brand. Still is for the rods, but i havent had a single Shimano reel no matter how cheap or expensive come defective out of the box. But i have had 3 from Dawia.... And all 3 are from $150-375 MSRP.... My Tatula Ct's and Fuego Ct are the only things keeping me from doing the same thing you did, and switching to all Shimano/Lews for casting reels....

 

Now for the OP's statement. I own various reels from both brands, from budget reels to more higher end. The Zillion and Tatula SV TW i own are both smooth, the Tatula 150 and Fuego CT feel awful (about the same as my $30 never cleaned and bought used Abu Black Max), the Tatula Ct's feel good, not smooth but not rough. 

The base SLX and SLX A feel worse than the Tatula CT, better than the 150 and Fuego CT however. The SLX XT feels better than the Tatula CT but not anywhere near the Daiwas i mentioned that have the SV spools. The SLX MGL 70 (last gen) feels the best to me.

And while im here i might as well talk about the Lews reels i own, the LFS, Superduty LFS feel and sound like somethings dragging across cardbox. The BB1 pro is really smooth however.

 

I feel like no matter what brand you prefer there cant be a claim made as to which is better as a whole, since nowadays quality control is hit or miss, grease can dry up, and if you take into consideration that some people are better than others at cleaning their reels, and using different products to service them can play a big part as well in how the reel performs....

You would really have to take dozens of the same reels from both brands, using the same greases, oils, and do an actual study before making a claim that big.

[NorthernBasser]

4 hours ago, newapti5 said:

Can I add Abu reels into the mix?

 

Abu Garcia entering the ring of a Shimano vs Daiwa heavyweight fight.

 

 

 

[newapti5]

1 minute ago, NorthernBasser said:

 

Abu Garcia entering the ring of a Shimano vs Daiwa heavyweight fight.

 

 

 

 

This is literally trolling. We are all gonna get deleted by admin soon.

[NorthernBasser]

20 minutes ago, newapti5 said:

 

This is literally trolling. We are all gonna get deleted by admin soon.

 

I'm just going along with the silliness. (tho Abu would get KO'ed in the 1st round) 🙂

[GreenPig]

Are y'all talking about Spinning, Baitcast, or Spincast reels? I need to learn to cast a baitcaster.