A Pro Angler Voices Concerns About FFS

[Susky River Rat]

55 minutes ago, casts_by_fly said:

He still had to know where the fish would be and make a tournament plan to support that.  On nearly 300k acres, you could do a lot of sweeping the trolling motor all day if that's your plan and not see anything.

This is why some mount 6 transducers on the boat on the sides, transom, etc so they can scan like they would using side scan. 

[bowhunter63]

FFS is not worth watching. I really don’t watch the tours any more. Some of the new guys are more video gamers more then fisherman 

[Bankc]

I find it funny that trolling is against the rules, but FFS isn't.  To me, FFS presents a larger advantage than trolling, and by a considerable margin.  But trolling, for whatever reason, is considered unsportsmanlike. 

 

But, at the end of the day, it's not about what's best for the bass, best for the angler, or even best for the fan.  It's about what's best for the rich people.  In this case, it's the companies making FFS.  That's just the way the world works. 

 

I think FFS will eventually get banned.  Either the technology gets cheaper, everyone has one, and people blame it for when the fish populations collapse (though environmental changes will probably play a larger role, but receive less of the blame).  Or the technology becomes more expensive with each generation of improvement, and eventually most people become priced out of the sport altogether.  I have a real hard time imagining a scenario where FFS improves the sport over the long term.  But I could be wrong.  It wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong about the future. 

[casts_by_fly]

28 minutes ago, Susky River Rat said:

This is why some mount 6 transducers on the boat on the sides, transom, etc so they can scan like they would using side scan. 

Very true. But I don’t think this guy is that guy. 

[rgasr63]

I respect everyone's opinion. Somebody said that the genie is out of the bottle. I think that time has passed by a while back. We are seeing the fruits of FFS already fish populations are starting to shrink. People are saying a ban is needed. My humble opinion is that nobody wins now. There are many anglers and professional fishermen that have invested a whole lot of coin on FFS just to try to compete. What happens to all that investment if a ban occurs? Lure manufacturers will loose in the short also. 

[Choporoz]

Speaking of trolling, how is it that nobody is talking about the unfathomable tragedy that is crappie brakes!!!  If Pangrac hadn't melted down on BTL the other day, I'd have never known what a huge issue those are

 

    

[Susky River Rat]

@rgasr63 that’s the price you pay in any sport to compete. 

[Bigassbass]

This did not happen over night, it's be coming for a long time.  Whenever you put big money out there for people to win they will use whatever they can to get it.  Tournaments should not allow FFS how about a depth finder on your boat and honestly you don't really need that.  I've owned several bass boats and hardly ever looked at the screen.  FSS teaches you to be a screen watcher and that's all, in my opinion it's for lazy people.  

[Tennessee Boy]

@Team9nine that video is hilarious.  It has convinced me that the Hydrowave has to be banned.

[gimruis]

2 hours ago, Susky River Rat said:

This is why some mount 6 transducers on the boat on the sides, transom, etc so they can scan like they would using side scan. 

 

A pro muskie angler did just that two years ago and mopped up in an event in northern Wisconsin.  8 units!  In response, the PMTT banned it outright for the remainder of the season (which, at the time, I thought was a bit of a knee jerk reaction).

 

Since then, they have banned it completely during event hours.  They are allowed to use it during pre-fishing but the transducers have to be removed during event hours.

 

Trolling isn't permitted because each state has different rules on the number of lines you can use.  Some states have a limit of 1 and others have no limit.  Can you imagine pro bass anglers trying to follow these rules when they go from one state to the next for an event?  The horror...

[BucksBasser]

6 hours ago, Pat Brown said:

NC is working on laws.  Crappie populations at Shearon Harris are 30% down in the past 2 years.

 

While I'm not sold on it directly impacting bass populations - my big girls eat crappie and I don't like the food web getting torched with gasoline by idiots with tv screens on their boats.

Simple solution is for NC to adjust size and catch limits.

[Susky River Rat]

@gimruisi remember this very well. I was still musky fishing.  I also guess the musky guys are the only ones apart enough to know the laws and regs where they fish in tournaments so they can troll. 
 

At first I thought like most. This technology is so cool! Than after seeing what it is truly capable of my mind changed to whoa wait a second this not good. If you are fishing without it in any kind of tournament professional or beer league you are more than likely just making a donation to the winner. 
 

My boat is illegal per BASS and MLF rules. I have an “unfair” advantage with it. Yet anyone can buy it it’s a production boat. Pros are dumping more than what my boat costs into electronics to be competitive. 

[Woody B]

17 hours ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

He was the quintessential shallow water/sight fishing expert,

 

Shallow water sight fishing rarely works in the dog days of Summer.    I applaud the angler for adapting to the conditions.  Catching Brown Bass is way different that catching Green Bass in Florida, where he's from. 

 

I'm disappointed with his attention seeking behavior.  I believe he's simply trying to get his name mentioned a few more times.    

 

 

 

[TnRiver46]

7 hours ago, Bankc said:

I find it funny that trolling is against the rules, but FFS isn't.  To me, FFS presents a larger advantage than trolling, and by a considerable margin.  But trolling, for whatever reason, is considered unsportsmanlike. 

 

But, at the end of the day, it's not about what's best for the bass, best for the angler, or even best for the fan.  It's about what's best for the rich people.  In this case, it's the companies making FFS.  That's just the way the world works. 

 

I think FFS will eventually get banned.  Either the technology gets cheaper, everyone has one, and people blame it for when the fish populations collapse (though environmental changes will probably play a larger role, but receive less of the blame).  Or the technology becomes more expensive with each generation of improvement, and eventually most people become priced out of the sport altogether.  I have a real hard time imagining a scenario where FFS improves the sport over the long term.  But I could be wrong.  It wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong about the future. 

The price ain’t that bad. Everyone that fishes tournaments here has dual power poles and literally never uses them, I’d guess both those cost more than live 

 

and a 250 hp costs about 15 times as much as the sonar 

6 hours ago, rgasr63 said:

 fish populations are starting to shrink. 

I’ve seen zero evidence of this 

 

 

you can troll for crappie with unlimited rods in TN and someone recently broke the world record. 

[AlabamaSpothunter]

6 hours ago, Woody B said:

 

Shallow water sight fishing rarely works in the dog days of Summer.    I applaud the angler for adapting to the conditions.  Catching Brown Bass is way different that catching Green Bass in Florida, where he's from. 

 

I'm disappointed with his attention seeking behavior.  I believe he's simply trying to get his name mentioned a few more times.    

 

 

 

Keith Carson is super likable, humble, and doesn't strike me as the type to seek attention, rather quite the opposite.     I agree with you, I fully applaud any man that does what it takes to create an honest living for himself and his family, it's just a shame that one of the last great "romantic" "pure" "shallow water guru" etc. anglers in the game had to embrace this technology or be forced to go work a normal job.  

 

I just think he understands how poignant his recent win was in regard to the tectonic shift in how we fish for Bass.    He was the embodiment of traditional Bass fishing, and was one of the very last holdouts in terms of elite level anglers that didn't cave into the FFS revolution.      

 

He fished exactly like his best friend Jon Cox, the last boy scout in Bass fishing imho.   That's what makes his win so shocking.    

 

Once Jon Cox puts a LVS 34 on his boat, there will be no more holdouts on the elite level of the sport.  

 

I was pretty much over this topic a few weeks ago, but Carson's win was pretty shocking at least to me, and just another perfectly clear data point that illustrates how FFS has completely changed Bass fishing at least on the professional level.    

[rgasr63]

6 hours ago, TnRiver46 said:

The price ain’t that bad. Everyone that fishes tournaments here has dual power poles and literally never uses them, I’d guess both those cost more than live 

 

and a 250 hp costs about 15 times as much as the sonar 

I’ve seen zero evidence of this 

 

 

you can troll for crappie with unlimited rods in TN and someone recently broke the world record. 

NC  has been quoted that crappie populations are down. That is what I have seen so far that can be quoted. I believe you will see more as we go forward. Time always paints a true and perfect picture. It is not the top level pro fishermen that I worry about most will catch and release. But some of the wannabe pros with resources are the ones in question. But if the baitfish populations fall,the size and numbers of bass can be effected. IMHO. I hope that I am wrong.

13 hours ago, Susky River Rat said:

@rgasr63 that’s the price you pay in any sport to compete. 

That is a high price to compete IMHO. 

[Susky River Rat]

@rgasr63 never get into racing then. These guys choose to do this. They could easily have a job like the rest of us. 

[TnRiver46]

1 hour ago, rgasr63 said:

NC  has been quoted that crappie populations are down. That is what I have seen so far that can be quoted. I believe you will see more as we go forward. Time always paints a true and perfect picture. It is not the top level pro fishermen that I worry about most will catch and release. But some of the wannabe pros with resources are the ones in question. But if the baitfish populations fall,the size and numbers of bass can be effected. IMHO. I hope that I am wrong.

That is a high price to compete IMHO. 

It takes some fairly in depth sampling and years of trend comparison to actually know if crappie populations are down, not just a quote . Even the data from a true scientific study isn’t 100% accurate or telling, it’s under water after all 

 

I’ve lost count of all the things that were going to ruin bass fishing, crappie fishing , trout fishing, over the years. And the fishing just keeps getting better despite humans worrying 

 

good habitat= good fishing 

[Koz]

The older pros having spent years running and graphing tournament lakes. But now the younger guys can come in with 360 and FFS and quickly find productive places to fish.

 

Not only that, but many of these spots are where people would not have even thought of fishing. That’s a bit of a slap in the face to the Old Guard.

 

In the bass fishing world, FFS seems to show us there are vast, untapped populations of bass. Is that such a bad thing? 

 

In almost every sport there comes a time when a new technology comes about and for a brief period the early adopters have an advantage, but then it all evens out.

 

The truth is that FFS has been around for a while. But in the beginning it was treated as kind of a gimmick. Those early adopters messed with it, but they didn’t dedicate themselves to it.

 

Then younger people, who grew up with technology as part of their daily lives, put the time into it to learn the nuances. Is it their fault that they mastered it while the older, early adopters treated it as a gimmick?

 

Personally, I like FFS. I fish out of a kayak and I simply can’t cover water like a bass boat. So FFS , when used correctly, can quickly help me find bait, structure, and even bass. I can pan around instead of motoring long stretches with side scan or down scan.

 

That being said, I think that the pro tours should be limited to one screen and one transducer. I also think that it should be shut off on the final day of the tournament.

 

But you know what’s coming next - high powered CPU’s, AI, species identification and target fish sizes. Oh - and augmented reality. I don’t think any of that should be allowed on the pro tours, but that technology is coming.

[Tennessee Boy]

I read the concerns about FFS and I think either people have gone crazy or I’m crazy.  The things people say on this topic boggle my mind.   The original article in this thread is a perfect example when Carson said

 

“I’m really worried that if all the retailers are selling is spinning tackle, light line, jig heads, and plastic minnows, the sales of all other tackle are going to struggle in a big way, and that doesn’t leave the fishing industry in a healthy place”

 

Does anyone really think that in the near future there will be tackle stores with no baitcasting reels,  no plastic worms,  and no crankbaits?  All because of FFS?   Really?

[Zcoker]

The irony here is that a lot of this "basic" technology existed years ago and no one had a hissy over it until the technology blossomed into what it is today, which, btw, is going to keep evolving into oblivion. It's here to stay and folks are going to make use of it in tournaments, as long as they are allowed to. It's like automobiles, some are super duper outright pinnacles of achievement worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, and yet, ALL automobiles still have to stop at red lights, no matter what they are made of or no matter the technology achieved. Rules are what it's all about. The blame and/or solutions need to be focused there, not on FFS itself.

[gimruis]

3 hours ago, Tennessee Boy said:

Does anyone really think that in the near future there will be tackle stores with no baitcasting reels,  no plastic worms,  and no crankbaits?  All because of FFS?   Really?

 

No, I don't.  But certainly there's been a drop off on certain styles of lures.  Data doesn't lie.  I don't feel that sorry for a multi-million dolllar company though.  They need to adapt or fail.  No different than any other company in a specific industry.

 

It will be a cold day in hell before I give up my plastics and bait casters.

[TnRiver46]

3 hours ago, Tennessee Boy said:

I read the concerns about FFS and I think either people have gone crazy or I’m crazy.  The things people say on this topic boggle my mind.   The original article in this thread is a perfect example when Carson said

 

“I’m really worried that if all the retailers are selling is spinning tackle, light line, jig heads, and plastic minnows, the sales of all other tackle are going to struggle in a big way, and that doesn’t leave the fishing industry in a healthy place”

 

Does anyone really think that in the near future there will be tackle stores with no baitcasting reels,  no plastic worms,  and no crankbaits?  All because of FFS?   Really?

After watching that video, everyone else has gone crazy, not you 😆 

 

the loudest voices just can’t help but constantly contradict themselves 

[slowworm]

3 hours ago, Tennessee Boy said:

I read the concerns about FFS and I think either people have gone crazy or I’m crazy.  The things people say on this topic boggle my mind.   The original article in this thread is a perfect example when Carson said

 

“I’m really worried that if all the retailers are selling is spinning tackle, light line, jig heads, and plastic minnows, the sales of all other tackle are going to struggle in a big way, and that doesn’t leave the fishing industry in a healthy place”

 

Does anyone really think that in the near future there will be tackle stores with no baitcasting reels,  no plastic worms,  and no crankbaits?  All because of FFS?   Really?

 

Apparently, people do think that, or they have an agenda that makes them say it.

 

The average angler in the US goes into Walmart, Dicks, BPS etc. and buys a combo around $100 give or take, and fish from the banks or docks, or so, at least from the last data I seem to recall.  

 

We here at BR are "Elites" very much in the sense that we are all bassheads and are very much "not average."  We fish combos running into $400-$600 range.  We buy kayaks for $1500+.  We run boats that cost many $10,000s and pull them around with trucks.

 

The Pro Circuit are the Hyper-Elites.  If anyone thinks that we on BR or those on the elite circuit represent the vast majority of angler out there, I have a bridge in London I would like to sell you.

 

FFS is not going to kill sales of other tackle.  Heck, FFS use is very much the minority of people on BR!  

 

Hyperbole much?

[TnRiver46]

7 minutes ago, slowworm said:

 

 

We here at BR are "Elites" very much in the sense that we are all bassheads and are very much "not average."  We fish combos running into $400-$600 range.  We buy kayaks for $1500+.  We run boats that cost many $10,000s and pull them around with trucks.

 

 

Who is this we you speak of ? 😆 

 

we’ve yet to shoot the oil up in my district