A Pro Angler Voices Concerns About FFS

[Texas Flood]

40 minutes ago, gimruis said:

But certainly there's been a drop off on certain styles of lures.  Data doesn't lie.

Where did you find the info on this? Id be interested in reading about it.

[gimruis]

20 minutes ago, Texas Flood said:

Where did you find the info on this? Id be interested in reading about it.

 

I think @AlabamaSpothunter posted something about it in another thread.  I will try to dig it up.

[AlabamaSpothunter]

16 minutes ago, gimruis said:

 

I think @AlabamaSpothunter posted something about it in another thread.  I will try to dig it up.

Yeah it's been reported on by numerous folks in the industry.  

 

Bass After Dark IIrc has had a number of different guests on within the industry that have said sales of hardbaits especially are on a major decline.

 

It's really common sense though at this point, just look around, look what's being sold.   Look at ICast this year, it was focused heavy on new minnows and jigheads.  

[Tennessee Boy]

FFS is all the rage.  Sales will always reflect the latest rage just like they've done in the past and will do in the future.   There are even FFS rods on the market.  I haven't bought one.  I'm waiting for one that's designed specifically for Humminbird MEGA Live.  

 

It could be a regional thing.  We all know that FFS will dominate the remaining pro tournaments on the smallmouth waters up north.  I'm sure the winning lure will be a minnow on a jig head or a drop shot.  If it's like that year round up north then I could see how locals would think FFS will put an end to all traditional baits.

 

Well,  I just checked SCORETRACKER  and Matt Beck is leading the MLF tournament on the St Lawrence River and has caught his 20 smallmouth on a crankbait in 0-5 feet of water... so never mind.  He's from Tennessee where you can still buy crankbaits at Bass Pro Shops.

[gimruis]

13 minutes ago, Tennessee Boy said:

If it's like that year round up north

 

I can 100% tell you that its not.

 

Shallow water tactics are very effective in the spring and fall when the water is cooler.  But every single northern smallmouth event is scheduled for the middle of summer when the water is the warmest, and fish have moved offshore.  For that I fault the circuits for their poor scheduling.  And they seemingly do it every single year.

 

Start scheduling northern smallmouth events in May or October and you'd see way more tactics come into play.  I'm sure you're familiar with the smallmouth masters @Dwight Hottle @A-Jay.  They post photos of giant prespawn brown bass in the spring caught with jerkbaits every year.

[Zcoker]

FFS is not just on boats, lot of kayakers are using it nowadays in tournaments. I've seen some awfully large fish (26 inchers) popping up in a lot of kayak tournaments, just over the course of a year or so. And all those guys who are catching them had just started using FFS. So it's impact is all over the charts. The pro angler quoted here is right: folks are forced to adapt and use it or just lag behind, trying to keep up. 

[Texas Flood]

It's still hard for me to see how non FFS gear is at a decline. The majority people who fish probably dont have a boat and those with one, also probably dont have FFS. Now if more people get a boat or kayak with FFS and only fish that style, then I can see that.

 

 

Not saying I disagree with @AlabamaSpothunter and @gimruis  whatsoever, its just hard to grasp that happening already.

[TnRiver46]

Remember when Alabama rig was the only thing people used with FFS? You can literally see any bait on there, including hard baits . I think it’s just people that don’t like it grasping at straws 

 

I can see a 1/16 oz jighead and Bobby garland on my old 2D graph .

[gimruis]

9 minutes ago, Zcoker said:

lot of kayakers are using it nowadays in tournaments.

 

My understanding is that the most recent event on the Susky in PA limited the use of these fully rigged yaks because the water was so shallow.  And the ones that tried to caused a lot of damage to their equipment.

 

There is still at least one location where it wasn't an advantage.

[PhishLI]

On 8/5/2024 at 12:11 AM, AlabamaSpothunter said:

For the record, I'm not anti FFS....the genie is out of the bottle, however the sport needs guardrails for what's inevitably coming down the pipeline in terms of next generation tech.   

As far as pro competition goes, they should've never let the camel get its nose under the tent a long time ago, but they did. Here we are now, and who knows how far it'll go before the average tournament watcher gets grossed out enough to tune out. All of it is like PEDs in pro sports, IMO. The argument that everyone involved being allowed to juice makes it a totally level playing field doesn't make this any more appealing. It's still juicing, and most people don't juice. When I was a gym rat the roid heads stuck out like a sore thumb, and their results were a big "whatever" to anyone who simply worked hard and was satisfied with what they ended up with.

 

For civilians who'd rather not grind it out constantly, do what you have to do. I don't have giant, deep bodies of water locally, so no judgement from me. I don't know for a fact that I wouldn't succumb to the tech if I were facing 10s or 100s of thousands of acres of mostly dead water.

[BucksBasser]

22 hours ago, Susky River Rat said:

@gimruisi remember this very well. I was still musky fishing.  I also guess the musky guys are the only ones apart enough to know the laws and regs where they fish in tournaments so they can troll. 
 

At first I thought like most. This technology is so cool! Than after seeing what it is truly capable of my mind changed to whoa wait a second this not good. If you are fishing without it in any kind of tournament professional or beer league you are more than likely just making a donation to the winner. 
 

My boat is illegal per BASS and MLF rules. I have an “unfair” advantage with it. Yet anyone can buy it it’s a production boat. Pros are dumping more than what my boat costs into electronics to be competitive. 

A lot of that money is going for large screens.   They even have 21" screens for mapping.  Some boats have 5 large screens.

 

I don't see very many boats on the Nock with FFS.  I did see a kayak on Peace Valley with FFS.  You need it there as there are only two bass in the lake.   😄

3 hours ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

Yeah it's been reported on by numerous folks in the industry.  

 

Bass After Dark IIrc has had a number of different guests on within the industry that have said sales of hardbaits especially are on a major decline.

 

It's really common sense though at this point, just look around, look what's being sold.   Look at ICast this year, it was focused heavy on new minnows and jigheads.  

I don't have FFS but I buy $20 in plastics for every $1 in hard baits.  Lot's of innovation and new materials in soft baits.  Not so much in hard baits.

[Susky River Rat]

@BucksBasser they use it at blue marsh, the river, marsh creek, marburg. Everywhere I go people have it. 

[BucksBasser]

1 minute ago, Susky River Rat said:

@BucksBasser they use it at blue marsh, the river, marsh creek, marburg. Everywhere I go people have it. 

I'm going to Marburg for a week late this month.  Looking forward to it.

[Susky River Rat]

@BucksBasser sounds terrible lol

[WRB]

My 1st experience with FFS-Live Scope was over 3 years ago and posted back then this technology is a game changer. If you are a tournament bass angler you need this technology to be competitive. Turns I was right then and now.

What has evolved is using smaller soft minnow lures for suspended bass in lieu of larger lures targeting more active bass. 
Location, location, location at the right time has always been the key to successful bass fishing. FFS solves the location factor.

Tom

[lynxcat]

I have no concerns about FFS. This is just the uncomfortable transition for an industry that was old school for a very long time and is now being greatly disrupted by technology.

[Woody B]

From the original article

Quote

“I relied on it (FFS) purely because I’m tired of getting my butt whooped by it. So, I pinged a Berkley PowerBait MaxScent Jerk Shad on a medium light 7’2” Fenwick walleye rod to catch every fish. But I’m really worried that if all the retailers are selling is spinning tackle, light line, jig heads, and plastic minnows, the sales of all other tackle are going to struggle in a big way, and that doesn’t leave the fishing industry in a healthy place,” adds Carson from a realistic perspective. 

 

I guess the people plunking down mega bucks for huge swim baits and the equipment to use them don't know about this.  

[MassBass]

4 hours ago, PhishLI said:

 Here we are now, and who knows how far it'll go before the average tournament watcher gets grossed out enough to tune out. 

I'm one of them. Disgusted by it. Turned off of modern pro bass fishing. I used to be a BASS member, and used to be interested in watching the tournaments. I'll still fish for bass for sport, but as far as following the pros, I just read a few articles here and there about how far away electronics have taken the sport.

[JayMac89]

I don't watch pro fishing

I don't use FFS

I don't really ingest any fishing content outside of this website

So take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt.

 

I never had any sort of opinion on FFS. The only reason I knew there was any type of controversy was from reading this forum. But reading through this topic got me thinking. Iv seen numerous responses stating somthing along the lines of "it's like any tech advancement in any sport". That's complete and utter malarkey. I can't think of a single sport that has had a tech advancement that essentially does the job for you. Not even close. 

 

Yeah, I get it. You still have to find the fish. You still have to land them. I'm not ignorant enough to think FFS can make anyone a pro. BUT the reason I'm drawn to bass fishing is the challenge of finding fish. Figuring out a pattern. What lures are the wanting on a particular day. That's the sport, in my opinion. Being able to see a live image, seeing if fish are following a particular bait, yada yada.... forget fairness. It's not even a sport at that point. It may be the price to play, but what are we playing? Seems to me it's taken the beauty of the sport out of the equation. 

 

Like I said, I don't watch pro fishing. I don't really know anything about FFS. So maybe I'm wrong. 100%. I'll admit that. But I can't think of a single sport that has had an advancement that makes that sort of impact. 

 

Further, I have a seen few people respond with somthing along the lines of "well most guys don't have boats, and if they do there not running FFS". In response to the affects on fish population or tackle industry. Now, I'm not making any statement on the affects on fish population or tackle industry. I'm too dumb for that. But I was fishing a lake during a small local kayak clubs tournament. And i mean small. ALOT of guys were running FFS. ALOT. So the statement that not alot of guys are running FFS outside of pros, again, malarkey in my opinion. 

 

[Texas Flood]

4 hours ago, WRB said:

My 1st experience with FFS-Live Scope was over 3 years ago and posted back then this technology is a game changer. If you are a tournament bass angler you need this technology to be competitive. Turns I was right then and now.

What has evolved is using smaller soft minnow lures for suspended bass in lieu of larger lures targeting more active bass. 
Location, location, location at the right time has always been the key to successful bass fishing. FFS solves the location factor.

Tom

I couldn’t agree with you more. I’ve lost count how many times I’ve come up to a spot that is holding a good amount of bass just to not get a single bite cast after cast.

 

Location is key but timing is everything

[Koz]

10 minutes ago, JayMac89 said:

I can't think of a single sport that has had a tech advancement that essentially does the job for you. Not even close. 

 

Yeah, I get it. You still have to find the fish. You still have to land them.

 

 

You seem to contradict yourself here. How does FFS do the job for you, especially in light of your second statement?

 

What FFS does best, for me at least, is eliminate water that is not holding a decent amount of baitfish. I can't tell you how many times I've found schools of baitfish on FFS but did not see any bigger fish. But I still cast to the schools of baitfish and more often than not a bass comes out of nowhere and hits my bait or the school.

 

One thing I haven't done a lot of is using a Damiki Rig or hover strolling. I fish from a kayak in narrow lakes (dammed up rivers) and there's too much boat traffic out there for my taste.

 

But my biggest takeaway from the pros using FFS is that many are now fishing areas that they would not have fished in the past. That's the biggest game changer with this technology.

[Susky River Rat]

@Koz I wouldn’t say it’s even fishing different areas. The biggest game changer is getting real-time feed back of what those fish are doing and being able to adapt your retrieve or cast to them. Knowing exactly where your bait is at all times.

 

A lot of dudes have played the open water game before FFS. This was just the cheat code that allowed everyone to play. 

 

if you aren’t using it to cast into pockets of weeds, under cover etc. you truly aren’t using it to your full advantage. 

[Texas Flood]

16 minutes ago, Susky River Rat said:

@Koz I wouldn’t say it’s even fishing different areas. The biggest game changer is getting real-time feed back of what those fish are doing and being able to adapt your retrieve or cast to them. Knowing exactly where your bait is at all times. 

That’s what I love about ffs. I use to suck at using a jerkbait but after seeing in real time what retrieves work, my confidence is now sky high when I fish from the back of the boat. Catching fish like that is so much fun. 
 

I don’t know if I’d ever think to throw a jerk before we got ffs, but now it’s my go to when fishing offshore. 

[WRB]

The 1st time experience with FFS-Live Scope was fishing with a friend and it was new to both of us. We played around withthe new equipment and went fishing. The day checking out spots we were familiar with without any success. The game changer came at Lookout Point one of my favorite spots. We made several casts that usually resulted in a good bass. I said let’s Live Scope the area and to our surprise the bass were suspended over 150’ if water 75’ off the point. I made a cast with a 3.8 swimbait retrieving slowly though the suspended bass watching the bass react and caught that bass. We sit up on that school catching a quick limit.

Back at the ramp talking to the local guide who blanked showed him the pics… game changer.

Tom

[Susky River Rat]

@gimruis the river was not that shallow they couldn’t have used FFS for the kayak tournament. People always beat stuff up on the river because that’s the kind of body of water it is. I do not know how many people utilized FFS.  From what I saw/read they were all doing the typical top water behind grass bed fishing so didn’t really need it. 
 

I am going to go back to what I heard on a podcast….. everyone is pretty much correct when it comes to FFS. Is it a game changer? Yes. Does it promise you a limit? No. Does it eliminate water and use of knowledge? Yes will it make anyone be a pro? No. Does it take skill? Yes. 
 

If a DNR really wants to make a ruling on it and ban it if they see you with a transducer they can confiscate it and fine you. At least in PA that is how it goes. You would still have to get caught but, no one should think this cannot be a situation if left up to the states.